doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com What Does it Take For an SXS to Shoot Loose?

None of them, Ted. Point taken. But, how many of your Darnes have been shot as much as it has, particularly with 1 1/4 oz. modern loads?

SRH

The R10 has seen a lot of use, Stan. It is, what, 30 years older than the Browning? I use 1 1/4 oz in it when I need it, late season pheasants in the cold, for example, but, no waterfowling.
I am the third owner I know of, and like all Rs that have seen a bunch of use, the action has slicked up and cycles like it has been greased with butter. It takes a lot of use for that to happen, the first owner doesn't usually get to see it.
You won't find Darnes for sale that are off the face, Stan. It doesn't happen, regardless of use. The problems most often seen involve people who have access to tools, who, really shouldn't.
Good luck with the repairs on the Browning.

Best,
Ted

Thanks, Ted. May you live so long and get to shoot so much that you're the first one to shoot a Darne loose.

SRH

For me, sliding breech vs. �Tipping-Gun� is not an either/or proposition. I like them both--and would like more of each. As for looks, there�s another old adage, �form follows function.� Both the form and function of the Darne look fine to me. Gil

I don't know about the other American makers but Ithaca Gun Company had approx. 390,000 double and single guns on the books by 1926.

By the way, I do like the looks of a Darne.

John

Ted, in addition to the numbers John posted above: Ithaca made 225,000 guns, just during the Flues years. Fox was just shy of 200,000 sxs produced. And Parker, LC Smith, and Ithaca all made more doubles than Fox. If you're going to cite a French maker for volume, you'd be much better off using Manufrance rather than Darne. But I will join you in defending the gun's esthetics and action. I've determined they're not for me (the R-14 now has a new owner), but I do think they're attractive, and clearly well-made.

Re Bodio, I heard (long ago) that he was contacted by convicted spy Christopher Boyce ("The Falcon" of the book and movie "The Falcon and the Snowman", who sold out his country to the Russians) about writing his biography. Falconry was the obvious connection there. My understanding is that Bodio turned him down. Bravo for him.

Yes, Larry, all those makers made bunches of guns. Until, they didn't.

Darne still does. They had a year and a half off, 1979-1981, and they have kept right at it, lower production as custom guns, but, a remarkable production run. They had booming times in the 1930s, and post WWII until 1957, or so. The early to mid 1960s were also good, long after most American double makers had thrown in the towel.

I had a discussion with Steve, not long ago, and brought up the question of Christopher Boyce and his biography to him. Every word you typed is true, Larry.

Best,
Ted

Ted has a point re looseness being a mostly a break action problem. I have yet to see a loose Darne or Charlin.

Friction in an engine revving at thousand of RPM takes years to wear a gap like that seen in a loose double. It is unlikely to be the sole cause for wear and looseness.

Action flexing is indicated as the primary, if not the only form of action dynamics during firing. The barrels are usually assumed to be totally inert and unaffected by pressure even though they are soft and malleable and actions are stiff and hardened.

Radial expansion and axial contraction in thick walled cylinders (such as barrels), are systematically ignored in the analysis. Even though the phenomenon must cause pounding between barrel and action during the recovery phase.

Good to hear confirmation on the Boyce story. Thanks.

The reason makers of American doubleguns got out of the business had nothing to do with the quality of the guns. And I could point out that two of those classic doubles--Winchester 21 and Fox--are still being made in this country. Like Darne, much lower production and as custom guns, but still being made. With a much longer break in production.

Darne had the advantage of operating in a market where sxs remained far more popular, comparatively speaking, than they did in this country post-WWII. In contrast, in this country, there were so many used American doubles available, at relatively low prices, that it didn't make bottom line sense to build new ones--except at the lower end of the market (Stevens). Although I think Savage might have made a go of it with smallbore Sterlingworths, and Marlin's revival of the L.C. Smith might have caught on if they'd made them as 20's rather than 12's. The Parker Reproduction clearly demonstrated that there was a limited market for classic American-designed (if not made) smallbore doubles at a relatively high price.

Manufrance.

Approx 74,000 Ideals between 1888 and 1939. Unknown number between 1946 and 1985 when MF shut down.

Approx 950,000 Robusts between the introduction in the 1920s and when MF shut down in 1985. More than all of Ithaca in just one model.

Those weren't the only SxS they made and they made pumps, semis and single shots as well.

And a field grade Robust is miles ahead in quality to any hardware store gun turned out by the likes of Stevens or Meridian.

I think it's pretty likely that without the excessive tariffs, the European and British gun industry would have eaten America's lunch. Clearly the makers and politicians of the time thought so as well. That's why the tariffs were in place.