doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 8g hand loading knowledge bank

I recently acquired an 8 bore gun. When I went to load for it, I found resources like components and load data thin on the ground, and equipment eye-wateringly expensive. Another thread gave me the idea that we could consolidate 8g loading knowledge here.

I got Tom Armbrust's book off lulu.com (only a couple of dollars as a PDF), imported Remington industrial hulls from precision reloading, a 21mm (for my bore runs 9/1, about .815") wad punch from eBay. I'm starting with a 2oz / 5dram BP load separated by stiff card and cork floor tile wads. I "peeled" the industrial case heads of their second layer with a mallet, chisel and carpenters nail pincers instead of resizing (however lagopus was kind enough to supply a set of drawings for a resizer; I also suspect a 23.5mm hole drilled in a piece of steel could do the job), and have found that my overshot cards are a secure enough friction fit without need of a roll crimp for my single barrel gun, especially as the cases I have are a little burned at the mouth, so have some constriction too.

What else do others know?

Cadet,

I was in the same boat when I bought my first 8 gauge about 5 years ago. I had to do some hunting to find loads, components, and the "how to" to actually put it all together. Tom Ambrust's book, along with some helpful forum members, put me on the right track.

I currently load both BP and nitro loads for the gun, but using two different processes. Here is what I settled on -


Black Powder: I went "old school" on the BP loads. First, I had Rocky Mountain Cartridge Company (http://www.rockymountaincartridge.com/in...ts%20Prices.pdf) make me 20 brass cases. They can be made to whatever dimensions you need. The cases are pricey at $13/each, but I have been told to expect to be able to load them 50+ times. The cases are really high quality.

For the BP loads, I shoot a 2 oz, 6 dram load. Using the RMC cases, I use Cheddite 209 primers, Circle Wad 8 gauge 1/2" fiber cards, Circle Wad 8 gauge 1/8" nitro cards, and Circle Wad 8 gauge overshot cards. I use Goex Fg (single F) blackpowder and whatever brand of appropriately-sized shot I have on-hand. I seal the cartridge head with Duco Cement.

To load the rounds I use a "load kit" I purchased from RMC for about $100 (see website above). The only item not included in the kit is the "dipper" to volume measure the powder and shot. I bought mine off of eBay.

Loading is pretty straightforward using the kit. I'm not especially fast, and it probably takes me an hour to load 15 rounds rounds.

Nitro Loads: I'm probably "cheating" with my nitro as I load them on a single-stage MEC loader in a similar fashion to my other nitro loads (loaded on MEC grabbers.) Tom Armbrust put me in touch with a gentlemen who sells custom 8 gauge presses. The press is reconditioned older/heavier MEC single stage press that came already mounted with 8 gauge resizer/crimper/etc. I say I "cheated" as the press was set-up when it arrived. I was loading as soon as I had the thing mounted on my workbench.

The downside was that the ready-to-go press was not cheap, but worth it considering the (lack of a) hassle factor to get everything set up (and to be honest, what I already had in the gun). I can dig up the name of the gentlemen selling the presses if anyone is interested.

In terms of loads, I shoot a smaller 1 and 5/8 ounce nitro load using Hogdon Clays powder. The 8 gauge wads were sourced from Ballistics Products (http://www.ballisticproducts.com/Reloading-Components/departments/271/). For hulls, I use Winchester 8 gauge industrial hulls also sourced from BP. The sizer in the press removes the band of brass that would otherwise prevent them from being loaded in the shotgun.

My reloading process is really the same as any other single stage press, just more shot and powder. Reloading new hulls is straightforward, but the reusing/reloading the "used" hulls can be tough as the hulls tend to stick a bit in the press. The nitro process is easier than the BP and I can do about 50 rounds per hour.

Ken

Ken, is there any reason you can't load nitro powder in the brass cases? Is your eight gauge a Lindner Daly? Steel or Damascus? Bill Murphy

What will you use your eight for? I struggle to use my tens a lot and figure if I had a eight they would get even less use.

My 8 gauge was made by Schaefer & Son of Boston. It is a fairly early A&D gun weighing just under 14 lbs with 34" barrels. I wish I had a Daly 8.

KY Jon - I shot some clays with the gun just this past week. Everyone always gets a big kick (no pun intended) shooting the eight. Actually the recoil is surprisingly tame due to the gun weight.

I guess you could hunt a turkey with the gun, but migratory game is out. It is really shame that the big 8 can't have a few more days in the blind. To be honest, it is ridiculous. A modern 12 gauge auto shooting 3.5" magnums has more firepower, and a 5 duck limit is a 5 duck limit, regardless of what you shoot them with.

Ken

Fun. Why? Why not!

Fun I understand. Pity you can't take a swan or pass shoot a few geese with that monster. That would be real fun.

Maybe he can...in Australia...Geo

In Alabama, and I would guess other states, anything over 10 ga. is prohibited on resident, as well as migratory game.
Mike

Ken.
Virgina limits ALL hunting to 10 and smaller. No 8 ga turkeys.

Mike - I believe it is a state-by-state thing. Like in Alabama, it is illegal to hunt turkeys with anything larger than a 10 gauge in virginia, but in Maryland the regulations do not restrict the gauge, just the number of shells in the gun and the shot size.

I hate to try taking and bringing that monster through security and customs here and there. It would be worth the hassle just one time to put it to work in he field.

If anyone is interested in 8 gauge hulls, primed or not primed, a friend has quite a few that he is parting out. I believe the hulls are Remington. The minimum he will sell is 50.
You can contact him at eightbore@hotmail.com for pricing.

Regrettably, not in Victoria or other states for game ie ducks and quail. No such restriction for pest animals. A shame really: ducks shot on the wing inside a bag limit won't know the difference if they were shot with ratshot from a .22 or BBs from a 4 bore.
When I was growing up, we used to have black swans eat emerging oat, wheat and other crops; Dad used to shoot at them with a .22 - not legally, but farmers did what they had to do on private land to protect their livelihood. Oh for a 8 bore back then!

From what I can decipher in the regs, one can use an 8 ga for everything but waterfowl in Idaho as long as the case is not more than 3.5" in length.

I'd need to look into it a bit more in depth, before the above statement is taken as gospel.

Still O.K. to hunt ducks and geese; in fact anything, with an 8 here in the U.K. . Just have to use non-lead shot in England and Wales for waterfowl but lead still O.K. for anything in Scotland if not over wetlands.

What powders do you have available to you? I have information for American Alliant/Hercules Blue Dot, French Vectan AO and British Nobel 82. Don't know what components are available to you in Australia. I will help if I can. Did you chase up that lead to the 8 bore loading book I sent you? Lagopus.....

It's nice to see that the Scots have taken a common sense approach to the lead shot deal, i.e., no lead shot, but only over wetlands. I could easily accept that concession regarding the great lead scare, but for it to be illegal here to shoot a duck or a goose flying over a grain field where you happen also to be hunting other legal birds is absolutely ridiculous!! As someone said earlier, the dead birds in the bag don't know the difference as to what they were shot with!!

I'll agree with that Perry as at a pheasant shoot ducks may come over and changing cartridges without changing position seems a bit pointless.

Don't agree with the bit about Scottish common sense since they had their own parliament. They have now taken the move to require a certificate in order to hold a low power air rifle. They will only issue certificates for vermin control and proper target shooting on ranges. Use one to plink at tin cans in the garden and it's off to court. Odd that I can take my rifle to Scotland to shoot deer but would have to get a special visitor's permit to take an air rifle to shoot rats. Since having their own parliament they have come up with some weird legislation. And don't even think of carrying a knife. O.K. to carry one when out deer stalking but don't think of calling in at the shop on your way to or from. Lagopus.....

Someone I know has a photocopy of the Douglas McDougall book; at the price, I won't be buying a legitimate copy!
ADI powders are the generally most available here; some are sold elsewhere as Hodgdon powders. At the moment I'm using BP, as mine's BP proofed, but some lower pressure smokeless loads might be good for case life.

8 gauges have been legal for turkeys in Georgia and South Carolina. I took a turkey with a Parker 8 gauge and it was a very memorable hunt.

cadet, best stick to BP then as it gives better patterns with the bigger bores. Those Remington Industrial cases will give quite a few loads as they are much thicker plastic and more stongly constructed than average shotgun cases.

I did spot a Douglas McDoughall book, I thought, at a cheaper price. I was amazed at what people are now asking. About time someone did a reprint.

Mills, it's good see those old big bores still being used. About time mine had another outing. Lagopus.....

The 8-bore is fun to shoot and will draw a crowd at any clays event. We had an 8-bore clays event at the LC Smith vs. Parker Challenge in Sanford last April; and although some were intimidated by the massive Parker and Smith guns from which they had to choose, we still had 54 event entrants. Everyone who participated said it was the most fun they'd had shooting clays; and the entrants included a wide variety of people from 14 year old teen age boys, to several women, and even one frail looking 80 year old gentleman. This elderly gent, as he returned his gun, commented to me as to how much he appreciated being allowed to participate; as shooting an 8-bore was on his "bucket list", and was something he'd wanted to do for years and years (just never before had the opportunity). The shells we used were hand loaded by Jim Stahl of the LCSCA and Jim Hall of the PGCA. Some were loaded with 1 5/8oz, and others with 2oz of #7 1/2 shot; the loads mixed so that everyone had an "equal" chance at the 5 clays thrown. I've no idea as to the load recipes concocted by those boys; but none of those 14 pound Smith and Parker guns had any trouble with digestion.

Ken, your brass cases should last forever, not just 50+ reloads. Cadat, the place for precut wads is http://circlefly.com/ . Plastic shells will burn through just above the brass when shooting BP. There'll be small pin holes. If you find reasonable 10ga loads, use them in your 8ga. There'll just be less pressure. I couldn't find 8ga hulls listed anymore on BPI web site. Precision Reloading has 8ga once fired hulls for a pretty good price. Good luck - Paul

Idle curiosity: does the concept of a BP square load apply to 8's, 10's and small gauges, or is it specific to 12's?

RMC (Rocky Mountain Cartridge) reports Cowboy Action shooters reloading RMC brass hulls in 12 gauge over 3,000 times per hull.

Observations from field testing today:
Old paper win hulls are rubbish: leaky primer pockets, and pinhole failures at the junction of paper and brass.
Yellow rems (peeled heads; will try resizing soon) are good; I'd anticipate a couple more firings from them, even using BP, which normally destroys a hull in one shot. Peeled heads seem to seat very deeply though; had one misfire.
My 21mm wads (card : 2 x 1/4" cork : card) seemed to give a good gas seal in my ctgs and .815" bore.

To a large extent this depends on your definition of a "Square Load". Over the years I have seen the square load defined by 3 entirely different definitions.
One definition has stated the load of shot was equal to the round ball, ie in an 8 gauge it would be 2oz. (16 � Gauge "8"). In my opinion this is not the Sq load but round ball equivalent load.
2nd definition is the powder charge has the same volume as the shot charge.
This is quite often given as the Sq load concept for black or bulk smokeless powders & is I suspect the one you are enquiring about. Again "In My opinion" this should be referred to simply as the equal volume load & is not the true Sq load.
3rd definition & I believe to be the true Sq load is one in which the length of the shot column in the bore is equal to the bore diameter. This was attained with about 1 1/16oz in the 12gauge & 1�oz in the 10 gauge. It was seldom used in any other gauge.
It is always Hilarious to read all the explanations of the great ability of the 28 gauge with its 3/4 oz Square Load. Its doesn't come close to Any of the definitions.
With the larger bore diameter of the 8ga unless you are using large shot or just breaking clays I would suspect you might want to load a bit more powder volume than shot volume. Of course not having an 8 this is pure speculation, but from old loading info the larger gauges all seem to have a heavier powder charge in relation to shot load than did the smaller bores.

cadet, you will find that the gun's rim depth might be slightly more than the Remington cases. Eley cartridges have a thicker rim and that would be what the gun was initially made for. I get the odd misfire due to a light strike if firing slightly low. Firing high; as you would for geese, doesn't cause a problem as the cartridge is resting against the breech. Lagopus.....

I shoot mostly 12ga 3/4oz loads. In the 12ga - .729 bore - a 3/4oz load has a shot height of .52, 7/8oz a .60. Both are way better than the 28ga bore to shot height, and even the 1oz at .68 has a better than square relationship. In my 10ga loads I shoot 1 1/16oz loads, and there is no recoil to speak of. I'm now waiting for Bachelder to make a Parker 10ga into a 8ga. Right now it's quite a heavy gun with thick barrels, but will limit my loads when I get it. It will probably be a kind of light gun for a 8ga, and I don't like recoil.

Some older Hercules/Alliant handloader guides gave the height of column for 1 oz shot in the various bores. Unfortunately they did not specify shot hardness or size but by assumption was ordinary chilled shot in a smaller saze as used by skeet & trap shooters. You can of course get the length of column for any other charge by sim ply multiplying the shot weight by the given figure.
10 ga = .610"
12 ga = .690"
16 ga = .837"
20 ga = .969"
28 ga =1.212"
.410 = 2.181"

This is based on an ounce of shot occupying about .288 Cu In.
On this basis an ounce of shot in an 8 ga (.835" bore) would stack up to .526" long. A shot load of 1.588 oz would thus be "Square" at a .835" column. With the larger shot sizes normally associated with an 8 ga it would be a bit longer, likely on t5he order of 1 5/8oz.

As an interesting side line standard industry is for black powder measures a dram of powder is deemed to occupy .115 Cu In. thus .2875 for a 2� dram load & .345 Cu In for a 3 dram load. Thus the 2� Dr-1 Oz load is one of the few factory loads one will see which is in fact based on the equal volume loading. Most use a slightly heavier powder charge in proportion to the shot volume, even in Black Powder days. Virtually all the Black Powder shotgun shooting I have done whether muzzle loading or loading shells I have stayed with the equal volume method with good results, but have loaded no bigger than 12 ga.

Goes bang:

Wow, a neat toy to be sure. Unfortunately another facet of the doublegun hobby I have to resist.

On RMC 16ga brass I cannot say how long they last, but I have yet to wear out any of my first 30 after hundreds of loadings