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#466257 - 12/21/16 01:37 PM Choke length
David Williamson Offline
Sidelock
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Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 3448
Loc: Eastern Pa
I didn't want to take anything away from claycrusher's post so I started this.

I often wonder if choke length makes a difference. The reason I say this is I bid on a set of Grade 1 L.C. Smith barrels that were 30". I asked the seller if he could give me the constriction of the barrels. He said he had no way of measuring them. I then emailed our records keeper and he confirmed these barrels left the factory at 32". I was the high bidder and no one bid higher so I was stuck with them. These were Fine Damascus and when I checked for constriction, the last 1/2" had .008 and .009. Most L.C. Smith chokes were 1" parallel and then 1 9/16" taper to bore.

These barrels circa 1899 were fit to a F grade hammer gun circa 1908 and are my go to barrels for sporting clays. I have never pattered them, but they reach out there and have no problem breaking targets with the 3/4 oz. loads I use.

So how much does length of choke matter.
_________________________
David


ADVICE TO DEMOCRATS, LIBERALS & LEFTIES:
WHEN YOUR HORSE DIES, IT’S TIME TO DISMOUNT (anonymous)



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#466261 - 12/21/16 02:32 PM Re: Choke length [Re: David Williamson]
liverwort Offline
Sidelock

Registered: 02/14/11
Posts: 146
Loc: PA USA
I bet it does. I have seen it explained here, I think, that if one just sort of gently roll crimped the end of a shotgun barrel that would cause the shot to disperse and throw a wide pattern. I also believe I read here that the Fox company used longer chokes and that allowed for a gentler constriction providing less pellet deformation and tighter more uniform patterns (theory?). That's what i remember reading. I may be remembering wrong or may be I am just wrong.

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#466262 - 12/21/16 02:58 PM Re: Choke length [Re: David Williamson]
David Williamson Offline
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Registered: 02/04/06
Posts: 3448
Loc: Eastern Pa
I can agree to what you said, but you have to remember that all shotgun shells at the turn of the last century had fibre and cardboard wads separating the powder and shot. Long tapered bores going to long chokes would help the now loose shot stay tighter when hitting these areas and for a short distance after it left the barrel. With todays plastic wads I think most of this tighter constriction is built in.

I found it curious with the above mentioned barrel on how the shot seemed to carry it's pattern longer than I would have expected.
_________________________
David


ADVICE TO DEMOCRATS, LIBERALS & LEFTIES:
WHEN YOUR HORSE DIES, IT’S TIME TO DISMOUNT (anonymous)



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#466269 - 12/21/16 04:44 PM Re: Choke length [Re: David Williamson]
Paul Harm Offline
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Registered: 10/11/04
Posts: 1719
Loc: attica , mi
You'll find the 3/4oz loads seem to add about one choke construction - less shot being deformed because of the short shot column. Those loads are what myself and a couple of friends shoot all the time at SC's and reach out 35 to 40 yards with skeet chokes in our old SxS's. Different guns had different styles and lengths of choke. Some of my Remington 1894s have over 7" total choke. Most guns don't have more than 1" of parallel at the muzzle. I've been told that when opening chokes if you end up with more than 2" of parallel you'll just end up with a " hot center ". 8 or .009 would be between SK and IC and that should be plenty for most shots. I like SK and LM myself.


Edited by Paul Harm (12/21/16 04:44 PM)

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#466270 - 12/21/16 04:46 PM Re: Choke length [Re: David Williamson]
2-piper Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 12644
Loc: Lynchburg TN
Not counting "Jug" chokes there were mainly two types of choke used. "Conventional" choke had a cone followed by a parallel section. "Taper" choke was strictly a cone with no following parallel. Full choke on some Lefevers which used the taper choke were as long as 4". This was longer than the entire length of many conventional chokes. With either type more open chokes were normally shorter than was Full choke.
I have NEVER sen the term "Extra Full " used in any old literature to describe the choke in any of these older guns. Poly-Choke made models which were marked for both Reverse & Extra Full though both were likely Wishful Thinking.
I do not at present have a Fox to check but to the best of my recollection they also used the Taper Choke.
Also I have never seen any gun on which the choke was a taper for the full length of the barrel as one so often hears spouted on some gun which will "Kill Farther & Deader" than any other gun ever made.
_________________________
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra

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#466283 - 12/21/16 06:06 PM Re: Choke length [Re: 2-piper]
moses Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 10/25/15
Posts: 581
Originally Posted By: 2-piper
some gun which will "Kill Farther & Deader" than any other gun ever made.

Hey ! I have one of those.
O.M

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#466290 - 12/21/16 06:39 PM Re: Choke length [Re: David Williamson]
J O'Neill Offline
Sidelock

Registered: 11/03/07
Posts: 35
Interesting discussion. It got me musing about taking things to an extreme... if a better, gentler-to-pellets pattern is given by a longer parallel after the taper, why not do the choking at the forcing cone, a long taper of course. In that case, nearly the entire barrel becomes one very long parallel. Again, not suggesting, just musing and wondering where the balance is struck.

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#466291 - 12/21/16 06:50 PM Re: Choke length [Re: David Williamson]
Drew Hause Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 7687
Loc: AZ but dreaming of KS
About 2008 I issued a request for 16g choke measurements and a number of respondents provided data for Parker, Fox, Baker, Ithaca, and Smith guns. Almost all had a choke length of 1 1/2 to 2 inches with a very short parallel section at the muzzle.

16g Parker guns made from 1891 to 1927 with chokes from .002 to .040 all demonstrated a choke length of 1 1/2" to 2".

Fox 16g doubles made in 28', 33', and 37' were found to have chokes about 3 1/2 inches long in the tighter choked barrels BUT a 36' 32-inch barrel A-grade had full chokes of only 2 1/2 inches.

I have no data for 20g

Dave Miles provided some excellent data from the PGCA showing that in full choke 12g. Parkers, the choke was bored with between .007-.010 constriction between 4 and 2 inches with the remainder of the constriction in the last 2 inches.
This is similar to what was found in a limited sample of 12g. Lefever, Remington, and Ithaca guns.

From Austin Hogan
Parker Chokes prior to sometime during Remington's ownership were cut with the adjustable nut borer and had the characteristic "OGEE" shape, with a parallel section 1/8 to 1/4 inch long. Late Remington barrels were reamed from the muzzle end, and have longer parallel sections.

P. 394 of L.C. Smith "The Legend Lives" shows the 12g choke specifications; a 1 9/16" taper segment with a 1" parallel segment as noted by Bro. David.


Dave Miles' information:

Parker DHE 16, 30" uncut titanic steel barrels, made in 1927
Bores are .665" both barrels choked .030" chokes 2" long

GH 16, 28" uncut Damascus barrels, made 1893
Bores are .665" choked .004" & .008" chokes 2-1/2"

DH 16, 30" uncut Damascus, made 1891
Bores are.675 (honed?) choked .020" & .030" chokes 1-1/2" long

DHE 20 Repro, 26" barrels made in 1980s
Bores .618" choked .010" & .020" chokes 2" long

PH 16, 28" uncut Twist barrels, made 1917
Bores are .670" choked .020" &.030" chokes 1-1/2"

Baker Black Beauty 16, 28" uncut barrels date unknown
Bores are .670" choked .030" & .040" chokes 1-1/2" long

GHE 12, 26" uncut Damascus barrels, made 1912
Bores are .735 choked .002" & .010" chokes 4" long


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#466300 - 12/21/16 08:04 PM Re: Choke length [Re: David Williamson]
Drew Hause Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 01/18/06
Posts: 7687
Loc: AZ but dreaming of KS
Choke length; bore to choke constriction

1926 12g Smith Long Range courtesy of David Williamson
R: 3 3/8”; .730” to .688” with no parallel segment = .042
L: 2 1/4”; .7305” to .688” with a 3/4” parallel segment = .0415
Hunter Arms advertisements refer to the LRWF as being “…specially bored to a longer, tapering choke.”

1903 12g Smith 4E
R: 3”; .728” to .692” = .036
L: 2 3/4”; .728” to .693” = .035

1906 12g Smith 00
R: 2 1/4”; .728” to .720” = .008
L: 2 1/2”; .728” to .695” = .033

1902 16g Smith 0
R: 3 1/2”; .656” to .622” = .034
L: 2 1/2”; .650” to .620" = .030

1903 12g Smith 00E
R: 2 1/2”; .728” to .726” = .002
L: 2 3/4”; .728” to .712” = .016

1906 16g Smith 0E
R: 1 1/2”; .650” to .632” = .018
L: 1 1/2”; .653” to .630” = .023

1905 12g Remington 1894
R: 3”; .733” to .706” = .027
L: 3”; .732" to .697" = .035

1913 12g Fox Sterlingworth
R: 3”; .728” to .721” = .007
L: 3 1/2”; .727” to .710" = .017

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#466315 - 12/21/16 10:28 PM Re: Choke length [Re: David Williamson]
2-piper Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 12/31/01
Posts: 12644
Loc: Lynchburg TN
Drew;
I will try to get you the choke length & constriction on my H grade Lefever, but not tonight. As I recall it has about 030"" in both barrels & definitely longer than 3" as I recall, no parallel all taper.
_________________________
Miller/TN
I Didn't Say Everything I Said, Yogi Berra

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