doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com J P Sauer xvii vs xxix?

It would seem that the Sauer ledger is akin to Bigfoot/Yeti as many have seen it but few, if any, can provide specifics. But we do know it exists & where it is kept: in the old Suhl jail basement. Sauer Nr. 222250 is given as a V,L, & D Modell Nr. 280, similar to an 8E, as described in Cate's Sauer text so I'd say yours was lumped in a ground of V,L&D and wasn't badged for some reason? It still could easily be a S,D&G variety also. I really haven't any idea on the V,L&D modells.

Again w/ the stamps in English, me thinks a pigeon version is really a red herring. 1st Lindner developed the 56mm frame & when the A&D Body Action protection period expired, then Sauer adopted the platform and who better than Lindner to lend quality control?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Forgot to note also that either on the flats or the water-table is the stamp "Made In Germany". So for sure for export & not an inland.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

Raimey,
If you had to make a call- would you say this gun is an XXIX ( in Sauer terminology) that was exported to the US and "labeled" whatever model designation by the importer as per their listed catalogue at the time ( 1923/24), or just a stouter optioned XVII ?
Perhaps another retailer ( were there any others importing Sauer guns at that time other than V,L&D and S,D&G?) ordered the gun and it was manufactured in a "lot" guns destined for US export?
Thank you,
Best regards
JBP

It could be construed that an inland Sauer Taubenflinte Modell Nr. XXIX could be the same platform as the Sauer V,L & D Modell Nr. 300 or 280 by just having the same dimensions. After thumbin' thru some info the Sauer of which you are a custodian just might be a V,L & D Modell Nr. 300 having a doll's head extension & Krupp 3 Ringe Spezial Stahl w/ upper & lower scears. The V,L & D Modell Nr. 280, w/ Sauer Nr. 22250 being that & possibly in the same lot, would be a V,L & D Modell Nr. 300 but wears common Krupp steel tubes and had a straight rib extension. Images appear to show both the V,L & D Modell Nr. 280 & 300 had upper & lower scears. Need to find a V,L & D from the period and measure the frame. Sure, there were several others retailers trying to fill the void of the supply lines being cut during WWI & others who were beginning to absorb the faltering S,D & G. Even unbadged, I'd still hazard a guess your Sauer was in the lot w/ Sauer Nr. 22251 as the preponderance of evidence sure does tilt the scales that way. Can you provide an overall tube length & weight? Typical was 26", 28", 30" or 32" and weight commenced @ 6 pounds and varied to 8 pounds.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

G&H does have some info on Sauer's w/in a 100 of your serial nummer:

http://secure.griffinhowe.com/research-listserial.cfm?make=37

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

The barrels are 30" long and weigh 3# 10oz.
Overall weight of the gun is 7# 14 oz.
JBP

From the above 1906 advert, V,L & D did peddle some Hammer Pigeon Guns so I'd guess the offered Hammerless version also?

Cheers,

Raimey
rse

I contacted Bob Beach.
He has the record for the gun in his VL &D logs. It was a gun ordered for stock , with pigeon gun options ,upgraded steel barrels ( three ring Special Gun Barrel Steel ) and ejectors- listed for sale as VL&D 280E *
Is it unusual for the VL&D inscription not to appear on the gun, or was that addition curtailed sometime before A&F bought them out?
Bob will be sending me copies of all the paperwork flyer after Xmas.
Thank you for all your assistance.
Best regards,
JBP

Ah, a V,L&D Modell Nr. 280E. I had thought about an upgraded 280 but w/ the steel type I was leaning more toward the 300. Badged or unbadged, I really don't think the end user cared.

Cheers,

Raimey
rse