doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com The value of a used pumpgun?

Too continue a discussion from another post, what is an old Model 12 worth these days? If it's a serviceable 12-gauge, it's worth about $350 in Denver these days. Solid ribs and other interesting variants still bring a little more and Cabelas is, of course, asking more for the same gun, but....their situation is a little different (as has been discussed here before). Good sub-gauge pumps seem to demand a little more money, roughly $450 seems to be where they fall now.

12-gauge guns in-general (doubles as well) seem to be languishing a bit as the the baby boomers tend to be looking for lighter-fare to carry afield (20 & 28s predominate). From what I'm seeing, millennials (at least the urban & sub-urban variants) are not attracted to hunting and shooting in numbers anywhere near the level that their forebears were. I now work with that generation and they have a very different outlook on things. No easy explanations there, but they are simply not interested in old guns.....period. There are exceptions, I'm sure, but as a demographic they don't generally seem to like things that have a delayed-gratification component and hunting (and fishing) are largely defined by delayed-gratification.

With the Model 12 you have two groups the users and the collectors.

Model 42 bidding up t0 $2,200.00

Model 12 Trap 1954 Original 2 pin duck at $630.00, 2 bids, 2 days left.

Model 12, 20 gauge 2 barrel set at $1,000.00, 3 bids, 4 days left.

Model 12 heavy duck 3" at $799.00, 1 bid, 1 day left.

Model 12 Deluxe 28 gauge at $1,850.00, 3 bids, 1 day left.

Most of the user Model 12s were in line with other makers, Remington, Ithaca, etc.

Lloyd,
You saw my refinished first year 1912 20 gauge. Not sure I'd part with it for $450-too useful a gun for me to let it go for that price. But, that is not the same as saying it is worth $450 to anyone on the street.
I like to hunt (or, at least have a backup gun) with a first year model 1912, and I prefer less money in my users, as actual hunting beats them up a bit. I'm OK with a refinished model 12 for that, maybe some guys aren't, but, they will pay for that decision. I have nowhere near that into the gun, for what it is worth.
Older, money 12s are a hard sell, outside of a goose pit it seems, these days. That is a bit of folly, also, a 12 is the most versatile and easiest to feed.
If pumps are pass�, word of it hasn't gotten to this part of the world-I see 'em all the time at my gun club, and the high school kids who are swarming on trap leagues these days use bunches of them. But, I suspect most kids are content with the cheapies that sell for less, new, with a second barrel or a second adult stock, for less than gramps wants for an old model 12.
I see a lot of model 500s at the club on the high school league nights. A lot of them are being driven by really cute girls, who wouldn't have dreamed of being at a gun club when I was that age.
I see some good changes.

Best,
Ted

Doubles and pump guns have been in decline since WWII. All the returning GIs knew the value of semi autos and looked for their shotguns to have the ability to shoot rapidly, without their having to work the action. Pump guns are a real tough sell around here. Plain barrels are often untouched at gunshows. High grade stuff still has a following but plain barrels, well used guns are hard to sell at any price. Worse you can buy a new Mossberg 500/835 for 300-425 NIB and trying to sell well used against that type of price point is hard. New against used is a hard sell if you don't have a interest in the old guns more than the new ones. Plus new comes in camo which seems to be the color of choice for a lot of buyers these days.

I know that people will point out the difference in quality between a Winchester and Mossberg and while they are right, I know from personal experience Mossberg 500s and 835s work perfectly every time I pull the trigger. I have had a 500 for almost 40 years and a 835 for nearly 20 years as bad weather backup guns and loaners and both have gone bang every time I pulled the trigger. Their actions are not as smooth as my Model 12 but they work reliably and I would not cry if I dropped either of them overboard. Just reach down and pull it out and shake it out.

In my case, both a collector and a serious user. Just replaced a slightly cracked "perch bellied" pre 1935 style buttstock on a 1921 field grade M12- nickel steel barrel 28" full- I have owned and shot the living daylights out of this one "Perfect RePeater" and in 15 years, only part I replaced (up to the buttstock) was the hairpin shaped carrier return pivot spring.

I own two Model 12's that I don't shoot very often, so they might be considered in the "collector' range- : (1) A 1939 mfg. 28 gauge field gun 28" solid rib barrel choked WS-2, and (2) A 1949 Pigeon Grade Trap gun with the "Old style milled rib" and a 30" Imp. Mod. choked barrel. I am too cheap to buy and shoot 28 gauge shells when I can shoot a Model 12 20 gauge (1931 mfg. 28" mod solid rib barrel) and accomplish the same thing for a lot less ammo cost. I haven't shot a round of 16 yard Trap in years- clays are a great game, but not the same as shooting barn pigeons in a crosswind, IMO.

None of my Model 12's will be offered for sale while I am on this Earth--so the pricing for used ones on today's market is a moot point.

I recall a F&S magazine ad from the late 1950's- a gent with a field M12 in brown hip boots is next to a railroad boxcar and a huge pile of red Winchester empties- "A lifetime of shooting won't wear out a Model 12"-- Yes indeed!!

The younger generation seems to have lost any appreciation for well made guns. Around here, lightly used Ithaca 37's are left untouched and I don't think the kids know what a model 12 is. But a plastic stocked Mossberg will sell right away. Any steel and walnut gun is overlooked. Of course they all want choke tubes and 3 inch chambers. One kid asked me if my JC Higgins pump, really a High Standard, and an over looked gun if there ever was one, with a plain barrel was a riot gun. He had never seen a plain barreled gun. Another kid had never seen a polychoke.

Don't get me started on the doubles. I was shooting a best quality Scott crystal window gun and the kid shooting on the squad told me that if I saved my money, I could buy a Benelli just like his.

If you'll allow an observation from a newbie . . .

My theory is that at a certain age, men begin acquiring the things they longed for when they were kids. The things they saw their dad and granddads use when they were children and young men are the things that hold their fancy for the rest of their lives. They can't afford to buy these things as they begin their working lives and family rearing years but they never forget. The shiny, fast, powerful things that struck their imagination when they were young continue to call to them throughout their lives. Someday, when the kids are grown, the mortgage doesn't seem so daunting and the income rises, they begin acquiring the things they've always wanted.

Consequently, men in their buying/collecting prime aren't buying the hot items today. They're buying the hot items of 25-40 years in the past. This is true for guns as well as cars and many other consumer items.

This explains why men of a certain age bought Model A Fords when they could afford a mid-life toy, their sons bought '57 Chevies, and those men's kids bought 60'/70's muscle cars. Each was scratching that itch that has plagued them since they were children.

The same is true of guns. Some men get teary eyed over Model 12 and 15 shotguns while men of a different generation think a Remington 1100 or a Browning Citori is the be-all, end-all. Will tomorrow's big spender long for some camo, plastic thing with 3.5 inch chambers? Who knows?

The corollary of all this is at a certain point there is declining demand for products of a certain age. As men die, move into nursing homes or simply scale back or end their collecting activities, there are fewer buyers for the old items that men once treasured. The next generation does not share their love for that particular era and aren't nearly as interested in buying the same things. A couple of generations later there is almost no interest.

What's the demand for Model A Fords these days? I don't know but I suspect it's pretty soft. Only the best condition, most desirable variations bring top money. The same thing happens with guns. Common or average condition examples languish on shelves and only the best pieces retain value.

At some point you can't hardly give away the rough or common examples. My prediction: In 20 years, the market will be flooded with Model 12 and A5 shotguns. You'll be able to buy all you want for next to nothing.

How all this applies to double guns, I'm not sure. Rare, exquisite things will always have a market. Common stuff, much less so.

I like old Pumps buy and sell them often. High as 500 bucks some as low as 150. Passed on a Marlin Model 31 High grade and condition at 1000, and wish I had bought it.

Around here ordinary field gun in worn condition is 200-300 Long barrel 12's the cheapest. Winchesters Remington's about the same price. Good configuration, rib, shorter barrel, 20 or 16 G, open choke etc more. I held out for the right 20G IC Rib Wingmaster, passing on 500 dollar guns, paying 350 for a good shooter to give to my Grandson.

Funny I hold out to save 150 bucks on a pump and drop 4K on a Parker without even thinking about it.

Boats

Bladeswitcher, I could not agree more.

Over my life, I have had a reasonable interest in cars, boats and guns. The pricing of each of those has followed the pattern you describe and I had come to the same conclusion a number of years ago.

Well, I kind of hope you guys are right. I'm going to an auction this weekend and they've got a Model 12 duck gun that looks to be in pretty good shape. Should be just the ticket for ducks and geese with 3" bismuth.