doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com How does the game warden check for lead. Bismuth

Well, you're throwing a lot more into it, GLS,than a simple request and a search...threats to break windows and all. Consent cannot be forced by threat: that's not consent and will result in an illegal search. Based on the totality of circumstances in your post.

If a LEO has probable cause, he doesn't need consent, although he might well ask for it. Consent negates all later claims of an illegal search.

I'm torn a bit here. I'm generally happy to see somebody keeping track of things as I interpret this as somebody protecting the resource. I have, however, dealt w/a fairly unpleasant individual a few years ago who actually asked me if my double was "plugged" (to be fair, everybody else in the group was using repeaters and we were many, and rather large!). On another occasion, my 10 double was completely soaked in a rainstorm while hunting waterfowl and I had left the slip partly unzipped to minimise any potential for rusting as we motored back to the dock. The warden waiting for us there (where he always is at this particular lake) threatened to cite me for travelling under power with an unsecured gun(!). To his credit, after I explained my reasoning, and after much grumbling...he didn't. It's surely a tough and dangerous job (I was living in Wyoming in the early 80s when a warden there was shot and, I believe, ...partially eaten!)

Well, let's simplify:
"I want to search your car"
"No"
Never, ever consent but don't resist. A search afterwards does depend upon circumstances, but the fact that you have been hunting is not probable cause to search a vehicle. A timely "free air" search by a dog without entering a vehicle or contraband in plain view are other matters. Why would a person who has nothing to hide fail to consent? Aside from general principles under the 4th Amendment, once you consent, you don't get to specify or limit the extent of the search. For example, the Georgia State Patrol would profile types of cars on the interstates coming out of Florida and pull them over. After gaining consent, some would remove door panels, remove back seats, empty the contents of suitcases and more looking for drugs. Sometimes they found drugs, sometimes they didn't, but once there was consent, there was no complaining about the extent.

Would you hang in your basement with two blinds on your property in the finest duck hunting habitat in the county?

Consent can be withdrawn at any time. The person giving consent must be present during the search so he can withdraw consent. However, by that time, the LEOs almost always have seen enough PC to get a warrant. Which a smart one will do.

Also, the profiling search for drug dealers was declared unconstitutional several years back. It was developed by DEA agents in Atlanta. Cars with rental FL plates, with two people in the car of S. American appearance, and driving strictly by or below the speed limit were profiled. They confiscated a lot of money and cocaine until profiling in general was declared unconstitutional.

The reason consent was not withdrawn is because most of the drivers were from Columbia and probably didn't know they had the right to refuse...if they had a right to refuse. For a long time, the profile was solid PC,and no consent was needed.

Hunting is not PC to search your car, but it is PC to check your license and your gun.

I wouldn't say "Never, ever consent." If you've got nothing to hide, why not consent? On principal? I'd ask, "For what reason?" just for a professional curiosity's sake. You'll likely save your self some time by consenting and possibly a traffic ticket for whatever the cop stopped you for in the first place.

There is a vast and strongly held belief around here that a game warden has greater powers of search than any other LEO. From what you say, Gil, that must not be the case.(?)

SRH

It's not the case at all. Game wardens have the same powers of arrest and search and seizure as any LEO, which are granted and limited by 4th Amendment.

If the officer asks for permission to search, I would object. it is an intrusion and not a courtesy of him to ask and I would be respectful in replying. By then, he's made up his mind to ticket if he wants to search. Often the traffic stop is a pretextual to search and you are going to get a ticket regardless. It supports the pretext or reason he stopped. And yes, it's the principle. As for "if you have nothing to hide, why not consent." Stop thinking like a cop who wants to search someone's car.
Trooper Benji was in the papers often back in the Operation Pipeline days. I'd heard that a contract was placed on his head by the drug lords back in the day.

I do my best not to be an outlaw. I am not worried about anything in my vehicle or boat. Still I would never give my permission for a game warden to search either. Like it or not there are some bad ones out there.

I think I've been summonsed once in about 60 years of steady huntin' and fishin'. That was for frog gigging at night on the Withlacoochee River in my canoe without the little red and green lights. I did nothing to antagonize the Officer, but he'd been called by someone and must have felt he had to do something.

I was using two Q-beams and was probably lit up better than an airplane. The river is so small and rocky here there's no problem with boat traffic. I took it to the Judge and he agreed it was silly and asked if I thought a $5.00 bond forfeiture would be about right...Geo

If I were a cop I would have to have a good reason for searching your car. Not PC, but a good reason. I wouldn't waste my time and yours by searching vehicles at random.

But if you said "No," I'd thank you and walk away. I did this for a long time and know when it's time to walk away, but in all honesty, I might remember your face and tag number.

I believe in getting along, which is why I'd say "OK." And if I as a cop searched your car with your consent and found nothing, I'd also remember your face and tag number. But in a good context.