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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,350
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,350 |
You've it right, John Roberts. A majority buy guns to shoot with and others to invest to make money. I'm solely with shooters, business sense or not, and couldn't care less about investors betting on markets.
I know it's a business like anything else, have nothing against making a profit but peddling doesn't seem to me what guns were made for: discriminating buyers to shoot or those who just wanted one like their grandpa's.
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Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 42
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2010
Posts: 42 |
If you want to invest in guns as a business investment, do not buy guns you like!! You need to be coldly rational in your buying and selling decisions if it is a business investment. Also look at the demographics. Fine doubles were the guns of the 50's and 60's. People who wanted them when they were young are now old and their estates or widows are selling them, not buying them. They were sought after by hunters and few in the younger generations have the opportunity to hunt without substantial effort and expense.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,100 Likes: 339
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,100 Likes: 339 |
You've it right, John Roberts. A majority buy guns to shoot with and others to invest to make money. I'm solely with shooters, business sense or not, and couldn't care less about investors betting on markets.
I know it's a business like anything else, have nothing against making a profit but peddling doesn't seem to me what guns were made for: discriminating buyers to shoot or those who just wanted one like their grandpa's. Were it not for thr peddlers (dealers), where would your pieces come from? A gun tree? JR
Be strong, be of good courage. God bless America, long live the Republic.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,100 Likes: 339
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 3,100 Likes: 339 |
Fine doubles were the guns of the 50's and 60's. People who wanted them when they were young are now old and their estates or widows are selling them, not buying them. They were sought after by hunters and few in the younger generations have the opportunity to hunt without substantial effort and expense. Sorry, Bob, but you've got that altogether wrong. Fine doubles were guns from the late 1800's until the late 1940's, when servicemen returning home started the trend toward repeating shotguns like the Winchester Model 12, the Browning A-5, and even later the Remington 870's and 1100's, as well O/U's like the Superposeds and various imports from Stoeger, G&H, and Charles Daly, well into the '60's and early '70's. About then there emerged a resurgence of interest in the classic sxs's that spurred the Win. 23, the SKB's, the BSS from Browning, along with the many Parkers, Foxes, L C Smiths, Ithacas, etc that we still see, along with the British and Continental guns thrown in. There is still a significant market of well-to-do shooters who want these guns in their battery. JR
Be strong, be of good courage. God bless America, long live the Republic.
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7 |
One man's opinion:
I think custom rifles prices are down and continuing to head down. The same seems to be true for most older domestic and imported SxS's. Also Browning A-5's.
I think it is due to demographic changes. The younger shooters (working, good earners) seem more interested in semi-auto black rifles than in traditional walnut stocked bolt actions. The ones I see prefer gas-operated semi-auto and O/U shotguns, rather than SxS's.
Us old fellas (FOWG's) are dying off, and after the funeral the kids sell (or trade) Grandpa's A-5, Model 12, or Ithaca SxS to buy an AR-15 clone, or a Glock.
Interestingly, and counter to the above thesis, prices of older Colt & S&W revolvers are climbing rapidly ???
.. gold40 -- (a Fat Old White Guy)
My kids, grand kid, and hopefully great grand kids are going to inherit the gamut from hammer shotguns and single rifles to the latest in modern arms. One thing I have noticed, is at about age 35 they develope a greater appreciation for walnut and steel. Or at least my tribe has.
Last edited by postoak; 08/14/16 08:48 PM.
Mine's a tale that can't be told, my freedom I hold dear.
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Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,350
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2002
Posts: 9,350 |
Santa wasn't a peddler. My first was under a Christmas tree. After that mostly from dealers and friends. I never thought of the transactions as business or investments, more like welcoming another treasure in our home as that first one 75 years ago--- which I still have, a Mossberg.22 bolt 46B.
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Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,025 Likes: 51
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2009
Posts: 2,025 Likes: 51 |
Unfortunately I must agree with KY's thesis and others that the next generation is moving away from old SXS guns.
Demographics,driven by falling bird populations save turkey and geese, and the push to non toxic will eventually devalue the market more.
I think the high end stuff will still be high end, but field grade stuff is doomed.
Indicators like the number of field grade guns making ot out of Europe is an indicator of what is coming to take plaace here.
I hate to but it is coming anyway.
As for the initial question on investing in guns, I have seen few people really make money on guns. 100% of them did it on the purchase price. If you don't get a good, very good, deal up front when the cost of your capital is considered you simply don't make money.
I look upon my gun dealing as rentals, the loss on each gun was rent to hold it awhile.
I believe Run with the Fox is right in his Curtis reference that guns are tools. I try to buy the most satisfying ones that I can. I do not use the level of common sense he does as I am a 16 gauge nut and all my double rifles are in archaic cartridges (then again I could not have afforded them if they were not).
Sense long ago told me I needed one good shotgun, likely a 12 ga O/U with ckoke tubes and it could do everything. It is true today, except desire puts far more than that in the safe.
Last edited by old colonel; 08/14/16 09:40 PM.
Michael Dittamo Topeka, KS
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
Thank you, Sir, for the kind remarks. All my male mentors shot 12 gauge shotguns- 16 and 20 gauges were reserved for ladies and children in my upbringing years (1940's-1950's). Just re-read the 25th Anniv. edition of SS magazine, the writer's favorite shotguns- Two interesting ones, from the fotos and details, and the 2 I would pick as well- A Francotte 16 "funeral model" sidelock, and a Winchester Model 1897 Trap Grade, by pal Silvio.
Although I love the muzzle fore ward feel of a pre-1964 Model 12, I can also shoot a Model 97 equally as well.
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,381 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,381 Likes: 1 |
The status quo in EU countries where people hunt will become the status quo here. Shotgun wise my advice would be to buy second-hand 20ga or 12ga PB Whitewing or Blackwing and do more hunting. The possibility of non-tox shot mandate and inability to order shells to the doorstep will spell doom for old double gun users. Blackwing shooter will have no problems as Winchester Xpert steel is <$10 per box at Walmart. If one wants classic rifle old Model 70 Featherweight in .270 or .30-06 will do nicely. Modern stocks for old M70 are offered by Mcmillan.
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 308
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 308 |
When my kids were pre-teen, and teenagers, they loved to shoot. They also worked as the target crew for local rifle matches at my gun club. Then I sent them to "good" universities, and they returned home liberal, with no more interest in guns or shooting.
As adults they have zero interest in inheriting any firearms. So, at age 75, I'm gradually selling off the collection and putting the proceeds into the grandkids' 529 college tuition funds.
Contrary to some of the earlier comments about guns not being good investments, my experience differs. I recently sold a Colt Diamondback for 5 times the amount I paid for it 30 years ago. The same was true of an S&W revolver I bought new in 1964, and sold last year. Many other items in the collection are worth several times what I paid for them -- albeit that I have owned (and used) them for 30+ years. Even calculating an "alternate cost of funds" I've made a profit on most guns I've sold.
The other open question is whether or not our grandkids will even be allowed in 2040 to keep any guns they inherited from Grandpa.
gold40
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