doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com No Lead ban in the UK

My appreciation for the above also. Enlightening to me.

My point is, and continues to be 'cripples'. If I had to guess, a truly scientific study would conclude that both lead and steel cripple game birds. But, I get to wave around a study that says lead does such and such a percentage less crippling. You're very adamant about what a waste of effort it is undo the steel and waterfowl hunting regs and laws. I never revisited that topic, but I'm sure you're aware of the numerous crippling studies associated with the introduction of steel shot. I would think that shows the wisdom of pursuing that leg to stand on.

'We' may be an audience, but maybe at some point you can admit that 'we' can not force a decision making politician to dig an obscure item out of a monstrous pile of business just to give us satisfaction. To help out, 'we' may be better off advocating for politicians rather than studies.

I think I have posted this before, but it was what convinced me that a lead ban would be dubious:

From: The blog of Guy N Smith, author and owner of the Midland Cartridge Co, (now defunct), circa 2010

"Blood Test
I requested a blood test to determine the level of lead in my blood. According to the internet the acceptable blood lead concentrations in healthy persons without excessive exposure to environmental sources of lead is less than 10ug/dL for children and less that 25 ug/dL for adults. My doctor was somewhat surprised at my request but agreed, stating that I would have to pay for it. I was only too happy to fork out �40 in an attempt to dispel the malicious myth. It turned out to be money well spent.
I have eaten game since I was old enough to consume solid foods. During the war years when meat rationing was in force we ate whatever my father shot. Without the benefit of a freezer, this comprised game throughout the Winter months and fresh rabbit and pigeon during the rest of the year.
Further to this, I had a small cartridge loading business during the 1960's when I must have handled tons of lead shot. Nowadays I am stripping down shotgun cartridges on a regular basis for review in this column. Hence I am undoubtedly classified as having excessive exposure to lead.
The result of my test showed that the level of lead in my bloodstream was just 5ug/dL, half that of a child without excessive exposure!. That says it all as far as I am concerned and I shall ignore further press releases on this ridiculous claim with the contempt it deserves."

Tim

Apparently root vegetables grown in certain areas can contain lead limits above W.H.O. guidelines. So, veggies beware! Eat game and be healthy. :-) Lagopus.....

Craig, there's no doubt that both lead and steel result in cripples. My point is what I see as an unacceptably high rate of cripples in the only extensive study done on pheasants (by Tom Roster). In the early days of steel, a lot of waterfowlers complained about its effectiveness. Two points there: 1. Steel loads are a good bit better today than they were 25 years ago. 2. Waterfowlers had to make an adjustment when switching from lead to steel, both in terms of shot size and also because of the different ballistics, steel vs lead. Because steel sheds velocity a lot faster than lead does, and because waterfowl shooting is longer range on average than is upland shooting, and because early steel loads didn't have the "speed of light" muzzle velocity of some of the current loads, more lead was required on long passing shots.

We do the digging out for the politicians, Craig. And of course we start with the DNR. If a lead vs steel study shows less crippling with lead, then the DNR is less likely to recommend any kind of blanket lead ban for upland birds.

The battle in America is upland non-tox. I'd have to agree that the waterfowl lead ban is likely irreversible. Modern high speed steel is perfectly effective on waterfowl.

The only problem for our small group of classic doubles fans is non-compatibility. Bismuth is the answer to that problem.

I do not believe science will find a problem with lead upland shot fall anything like the results that were relied upon in some heavily shot over wetlands. In addition, while steel is now comparable with lead for waterfowl purposes it is because of speed and use of larger shot. That combination will not carry over to upland use in my opinion...Geo

It just occurred to me: steel rusts over time and that may lead to other problems.

"Rust has an unpleasant metallic taste, which often deters people from ingesting it in toxic amounts. But prolonged ingestion � consuming contaminated well water, for example � can cause serious health issues including diarrhoea, stomach ache, nausea and vomiting. In severe cases, liver failure and major cardiovascular complications may occur characterized by rapid breathing, increased heart rate and weak, erratic pulse."

Just balancing the pros and cons of steel!

Tim

Astute, Geo. I wonder if we need some/any combination to continue hunting in the uplands. If we can't get it to carry over, what's that say for the future of hunting.

But Tim, on the "pro" side . . . dentists love steel shot.

And what happens if you have some in your gut and then go for a MRI Scan? Lagopus.....