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Forums10
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,816 Likes: 194
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,816 Likes: 194 |
Most interesting & many thanks for the effort. We will draw you from pattern welded tubes to the dark side sooner or later. But the word on the street in the day was that Witten was a bit soft for solid projectiles.
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,428 Likes: 315
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,428 Likes: 315 |
Probably that pesky Phosphorus  Low phosphorus ore was only found at that time in Sweden and North Wales; and the Mesabi Iron Range in Minnesota and Michigan.
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Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 972 Likes: 10
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2011
Posts: 972 Likes: 10 |
I'm also curious if any Excelsior Witten steel tubes were ever utilized for rifles?
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
Raimey, I think the answer is yes, look here: http://www.hermann-historica-archiv.de/a...;db=kat60_s.txtLos Nr. 320, The Collath Double Rifle Cheers, Wolfgang
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,816 Likes: 194
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,816 Likes: 194 |
Probably so. Seems the Tiegelstahl - Qualitätsmarke Excelsior(Wittener Exzelsiorstahl) or crucible steel gained new ground by the turn of the 20th Century(mid to late 1890s?). It was akin to Wootz and may have met its match w/ the advent of the electric furnaces by WWI. https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stahlerzeugung#Historische_VerfahrenCheers, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,816 Likes: 194
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,816 Likes: 194 |
"Collath-Doppelbüchse mit ZF Kahles,
Frankfurt a. O. nach 1906, Nr. 21512. Kal. 9,3 x 74 R, blank, stellenweise Närbchen in den Zügen, "WITTENER-EXCELSIOR", neu brüniert, deutscher Beschuss Krone/"UGN", Lauflänge 65 cm. Exzenterverschluss mit Hornhebel, Doppelabzug, Drehflügelsicherung auf Kolbenhals. Systemkasten mit Spuren von Bunthärtung, Randstich- und Arabeskengravur, Signatur "W.COLLATH.SÖHNE. FRANKFURT A.O." Überarbeiteter Nussholzhalbschaft mit deutscher Backe, Pistolengriff, Fischhaut, ventilierter Gummikappe, Hornabzugsbügel, Druckstellen, Abstand vorderer Abzug - Mitte Schaftkappe 38 cm. Klappkimme sowie neue SEM mit ZF Kahles Helia Super 8 S1, Absehen 1. Montierter Leder-Gewehrriemen. Gesamtlänge 108 cm.
Erwerbsscheinpflichtig."
Thanks Wolfgang if I recall correctly, Berger/Collath/Teschner was the source of Witten tube steel blanks.
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,816 Likes: 194
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,816 Likes: 194 |
Charles Daly Quality 275 Gun Nr. 1752 - Witten Excelsior - 12 bore - 30" tubeset, 7lb 15 oz
Charles Daly Quality 275 Gun Nr. 1786 - Witten Excelsior - 20 bore - 24" tubeset, 5 3/8 lbs
Charles Daly Quality 325 Gun Nr. 1885 - Witten Excelsior - 12 bore - 30" tubeset, 7 3/4 lbs
Charles Daly Quality 275 Gun Nr. 1919 - Witten Excelsior - 12 bore - 30" tubeset, 7 1/2 lbs
Charles Daly Quality 325 Gun Nr. 1934 - Witten Excelsior - 12 bore - 28" tubeset, 6 1/2 lbs
From 1912 Field & Stream vol. 79 adverts
Another interesting Lindner reference in 1941 Field & Stream Vol. 46 IDs Linde of Suhl, Germany as the maker of the Charles Daly Gun.
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,428 Likes: 315
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,428 Likes: 315 |
More from the 1891 report Gun Steels https://books.google.com/books?id=-c8xAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA196&dqWitten & Bofors were AISI 1044 - good stuff. Looks like Krupp was having problems getting enough Manganese into their carbon steels at that point. Later Fluss Stahl was 1045 so they figured it out.
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,816 Likes: 194
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,816 Likes: 194 |
Many thanks for feeding the beast Dr. Hause. Pray tell, how many Bofors tubes have you seen? Were those on the LC's or Sterlingworths?
Cheers,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,816 Likes: 194
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,816 Likes: 194 |
 Berger & Companie Witten facility reference. Cheers, Raimey rse
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,816 Likes: 194
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,816 Likes: 194 |
 Witten 1881 article bar stock reference w/ particulars. Cheers, Raimey rse
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