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Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Originally Posted By: L. Brown
The only people responsible for terrorist acts are the terrorists who commit them, and those who provide guidance, direct support, and training to the terrorists. Blaming all Muslims for terrorist acts committed by Islamist terrorists is like blaming all Catholics for the acts of pedophile priests.


Larry I really don't think that's a fair comparison...

The Catholic/Christian religion does not condone, promote or reward the acts of a few sexuality deviant priests...

While the Muslim religion openly condones, promotes and rewards the acts of a Muslim terrorists.

I find it strange that a man of your intelligence would fall for 'their act'....
I do agree their promises of all the virgins does sound good but anyone with any sense wouldn't fall for it.


I hear the same thing about what Muslims condone and promote and reward, Joe. Yet after an attack like in Paris or Brussels, all I have to do is google "Muslims condemn Paris attack"--and I get a whole bunch of hits. And remember--just in case you haven't seen a very good movie called "Spotlight"--that the hierarchy of the Catholic Church covered up all that sexual abuse for a very long time. They'd put a priest on sick leave . . . then he'd show up in another parish.

But since you raised the issue of Muslim terrorists . . . did you know that in February 1998, old Osama Bin Laden himself issued a fatwa telling Muslims everywhere that it was their duty to kill Americans, however they could? And he even provided excellent examples, using his Al Qaeda organization to attack our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998; the USS Cole in 2000; and of course 9/11. So . . . what's happened in the 18+ years since Bin Laden called for Muslims all over the world to rise up and kill Americans? (And remember: We have several million Muslims in this country, and several hundred million non-Muslim Americans. So no shortage of opportunity, right?) You know what? The school shooters at Sandy Hook and Virginia Tech--non-Muslim wackos--killed more people in just those two attacks than Americans killed by Muslims in this country and in Europe. You bet, you hear a lot of hate being spewed in the name of Islam. But you know what? The vast majority of Muslims aren't doing anything about it. And who's fighting ISIS in Iraq and Syria? And the Taliban in Afghanistan? Mostly other Muslims. They're killing way more of THEM than they're killing of US.

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Originally Posted By: L. Brown
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Originally Posted By: L. Brown
The only people responsible for terrorist acts are the terrorists who commit them, and those who provide guidance, direct support, and training to the terrorists. Blaming all Muslims for terrorist acts committed by Islamist terrorists is like blaming all Catholics for the acts of pedophile priests.
....


I hear the same thing about what Muslims condone and promote and reward, Joe. Yet after an attack like in Paris or Brussels, all I have to do is google "Muslims condemn Paris attack"--and I get a whole bunch of hits. And remember--just in case you haven't seen a very good movie called "Spotlight"--that the hierarchy of the Catholic Church covered up all that sexual abuse for a very long time. They'd put a priest on sick leave . . . then he'd show up in another parish.

But since you raised the issue of Muslim terrorists . . . did you know....

So Larry, if 'intel' gets us into a multi trillion dollar war, are you saying we can take it out of your paycheck?

Which is it? Are there pedophiles, and those who contribute 'direct support', or are all Catholics being punished in the pocket book and loss of community services because the whole organization is 'blamed' in the form of a crippling financial burden? I suppose there's a third choice, did it come out on dvd?

Are you supposed to use the phrase 'Islamist terrorists'?

What if hundreds of millions of dollars of financial support, and some manpower, for international radical islamic terrorism came out of a handful of US cities and counties. Is that 'direct support', maybe 'guidance'? Why can't we apply the Catholic corollary, and impose a punitive financial burden on all members of a faith for the transgressions of a few, the muslims? Hey, maybe a little financial arm twisting would fix the problem when the sharia police get hit in the wallet.

Do you think sometimes your logic only fits which way the wind is blowing in your neck of the woods at the moment? And about those ducks, last word.

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Originally Posted By: craigd
Originally Posted By: L. Brown
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Originally Posted By: L. Brown
The only people responsible for terrorist acts are the terrorists who commit them, and those who provide guidance, direct support, and training to the terrorists. Blaming all Muslims for terrorist acts committed by Islamist terrorists is like blaming all Catholics for the acts of pedophile priests.
....


I hear the same thing about what Muslims condone and promote and reward, Joe. Yet after an attack like in Paris or Brussels, all I have to do is google "Muslims condemn Paris attack"--and I get a whole bunch of hits. And remember--just in case you haven't seen a very good movie called "Spotlight"--that the hierarchy of the Catholic Church covered up all that sexual abuse for a very long time. They'd put a priest on sick leave . . . then he'd show up in another parish.

But since you raised the issue of Muslim terrorists . . . did you know....

So Larry, if 'intel' gets us into a multi trillion dollar war, are you saying we can take it out of your paycheck?

Which is it? Are there pedophiles, and those who contribute 'direct support', or are all Catholics being punished in the pocket book and loss of community services because the whole organization is 'blamed' in the form of a crippling financial burden? I suppose there's a third choice, did it come out on dvd?

Are you supposed to use the phrase 'Islamist terrorists'?

What if hundreds of millions of dollars of financial support, and some manpower, for international radical islamic terrorism came out of a handful of US cities and counties. Is that 'direct support', maybe 'guidance'? Why can't we apply the Catholic corollary, and impose a punitive financial burden on all members of a faith for the transgressions of a few, the muslims? Hey, maybe a little financial arm twisting would fix the problem when the sharia police get hit in the wallet.

Do you think sometimes your logic only fits which way the wind is blowing in your neck of the woods at the moment? And about those ducks, last word.


Craig, "intel" doesn't get us into anything. The Director of National Intelligence and the Directors of the CIA, NSA, DIA, Homeland Security, FBI etc do not make policy. (All they do is provide information to policymakers.) That's the President's job, with the approval of Congress (at least in some cases). Obama, for example, made much of the fact that he voted against the war in Iraq, while Hillary voted for it. So President Bush (who never dodged responsibility for the Iraq War, by the way) and those members of Congress who voted to give him the authority to take us to war are the ones who got us into that war. Obama got us out . . . some would say too quickly, since we're now getting back in. Some would say that if we had left a few thousand troops in place, ISIS never would have taken ground in Iraq like they did.

Are we "supposed to use the phrase 'Islamist terrorist'"? I do, Craig--because I find it to be quite accurate. I see no reason not to use it. How about you?

You have sources on hundreds of millions of dollars supporting Islamist terrorism coming from American Muslims, Craig? I'd be interested in seeing those. You do know that supporting terrorism is a crime, right? And there are people who have been charged and convicted of doing so. Currently serving prison sentences. And if Muslims in this country are supporting Islamist terrorism, they aren't doing a very good job of getting anything started in this country. As I pointed out to Joe, fewer Americans killed by Muslims in this country since 9/11 than by the Sandy Hook and VA Tech school shooters. Probably fewer than a couple bad weekends in Chicago, for that matter. Given millions of American Muslims and hundreds of millions of non-Muslim Americans, I'd say not a whole lot happening. ISIS is certainly trying to stir up trouble, and they're more effective on social media than Bin Laden was. It's a threat we need to be aware of--and are aware of. But it also needs to be viewed in perspective.

So no apology for misquoting me on ducks? You're a stand-up guy, Craig.

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Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Larry it becomes quite clear why our country is in the shape it's in now when one comes to learn you were once part of the "intelligence community".


jOe does have a knack for saying it all in just a few words!

I see this off topic thread is going even further off the rails thanks to you Larry. And I see you still can't ignore me. After once again telling us that you were going to ignore everything I said except for my Google French translation of "Larry is an ignorant douche bag", you went on to challenge me to start another thread on "throwing deer hunters under the bus". And you promised to comment!

Originally Posted By: L. Brown
By the way, if you have the guts to actually START a thread on "throwing deer hunters under the bus", I promise to comment. But I doubt I need to look for that any time soon.


How retarded is that, oh Mr. Walking Talking Bloviating Contradiction? You promise to comment to someone who you also promise to ignore??? And apparently you are too stupid to remember that we were having a discussion about you throwing deer hunters under the bus. And big bad Larry couldn't handle it. And he cried to Dave and got the thread locked. That's just precious Larry. You want ME to start another thread if I "have the guts"??? I wasn't the gutless crybaby who whined to Dave because I couldn't take the heat. craigd and I were not the only ones in that Lead and Condors thread that confronted you, Mr. Big Time Professional Outdoors Writer, about your incessant finger pointing toward those who use lead BULLETS.

You said you "try really hard not to be dumber than dirt." Keep trying Larry. It's not working.

We can't go back and pull any direct quotes from you because the thread is locked. You may not have said yourself that lead shot was the ONLY source of lead poisoning in waterfowl as craigd mentioned in a much condensed version of your multi-page attack on lead bullets... and lead shot... except for (most) upland game. But you did repeatedly scoff at our analysis and criticism of the so-called science you quoted that blamed lead shot while ignoring all of the other more bio-available sources of lead. I have advised you to go back and re-read it to see why craigd, myself, and others were confronting you. You and BrentD were repeatedly giving aid and comfort to the anti-lead forces. But it probably wouldn't do any good, because you only see what you want to see, and selectively edit things to prove your point, as you did with the Audobon Society statement on sport hunting and your denial that they supported lead ammunition bans.

And to think you are now demanding an apology from craigd as you deftly attempt to dance away from your mocking of U.S. Marine Corps Veteran RWTF without apologizing to him??? And do you remember when you claimed I said something I never said and I asked you for several days to either prove it or apologize? Do you remember adding words to my statement about the susceptibility of waterfowl and upland birds to lead poisoning in order to change the meaning? You didn't prove your false accusation, and you did not man-up and apologize. And now you have the gall to come here and accuse craigd of not being a stand-up guy??? What a dick.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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Originally Posted By: L. Brown
Originally Posted By: HomelessjOe
Originally Posted By: L. Brown
The only people responsible for terrorist acts are the terrorists who commit them, and those who provide guidance, direct support, and training to the terrorists. Blaming all Muslims for terrorist acts committed by Islamist terrorists is like blaming all Catholics for the acts of pedophile priests.


Larry I really don't think that's a fair comparison...

The Catholic/Christian religion does not condone, promote or reward the acts of a few sexuality deviant priests...

While the Muslim religion openly condones, promotes and rewards the acts of a Muslim terrorists.

I find it strange that a man of your intelligence would fall for 'their act'....
I do agree their promises of all the virgins does sound good but anyone with any sense wouldn't fall for it.


I hear the same thing about what Muslims condone and promote and reward, Joe. Yet after an attack like in Paris or Brussels, all I have to do is google "Muslims condemn Paris attack"--and I get a whole bunch of hits. And remember--just in case you haven't seen a very good movie called "Spotlight"--that the hierarchy of the Catholic Church covered up all that sexual abuse for a very long time. They'd put a priest on sick leave . . . then he'd show up in another parish.

But since you raised the issue of Muslim terrorists . . . did you know that in February 1998, old Osama Bin Laden himself issued a fatwa telling Muslims everywhere that it was their duty to kill Americans, however they could? And he even provided excellent examples, using his Al Qaeda organization to attack our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998; the USS Cole in 2000; and of course 9/11. So . . . what's happened in the 18+ years since Bin Laden called for Muslims all over the world to rise up and kill Americans? (And remember: We have several million Muslims in this country, and several hundred million non-Muslim Americans. So no shortage of opportunity, right?) You know what? The school shooters at Sandy Hook and Virginia Tech--non-Muslim wackos--killed more people in just those two attacks than Americans killed by Muslims in this country and in Europe. You bet, you hear a lot of hate being spewed in the name of Islam. But you know what? The vast majority of Muslims aren't doing anything about it. And who's fighting ISIS in Iraq and Syria? And the Taliban in Afghanistan? Mostly other Muslims. They're killing way more of THEM than they're killing of US.


That's because the vast majority are waiting to stomp on your head and the smaller majority gets it done.

Larry truth is all Muslims are terrorists in waiting....you know it but since you let your daughter be raised by Muslims you feel you need to defend them.

Terrorism is intertwined into their insane religion and there's only one way to extinguish it.

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Yes, Joe . . . all Muslims are terrorists in waiting. Just like all women are potential prostitutes. After all, they all have the proper equipment.

But you're right about one thing, Joe: Assuming all Muslims are terrorists, that means we need to kill them all. I'm waiting for you to run down to the recruiting office and sign up. I find it surprising that a large number of people who want to kill Muslims also happen to be people who never served in the military. Or perhaps served but are now too old to reenlist. If you have children and/or grandchildren, Joe, are you actively encouraging them to enlist and go kill all those Muslims? I expect the response will be similar to what I got when Clinton sent our troops to Bosnia. I was teaching at Iowa State at the time, and a lot of my liberal colleagues thought that was a fine idea, since it was a "peacekeeping" mission. I asked a few of them if that meant they were encouraging their sons and daughters to enlist. That's when push comes to shove. Not a one said they were encouraging their children to enter military service.

And Joe, whether someone is Christian, Muslim, Hindu or nothing at all, I neither defend them nor condemn them because of their religion. Or lack thereof. I was raised in the Christian church (Presbyterian), and I was taught that condemning someone based on their religion isn't the Christian thing to do. Condemning someone based on their ACTS, on the other hand . . . much more logical. And gives us far fewer targets to eliminate.

As for my daughter, she was in the hands of loving Muslim women, Joe. Between them and a bigot like you, it would have been an easy choice.

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Originally Posted By: L. Brown
...."intel" doesn't get us into anything. The Director of National Intelligence and the Directors of the CIA, NSA, DIA, Homeland Security, FBI etc do not make policy. (All they do is provide information to policymakers.) That's the President's job....

....Are we "supposed to use the phrase 'Islamist terrorist'"? I do, Craig--because I find it to be quite accurate. I see no reason not to use it. How about you?

You have sources on hundreds of millions of dollars supporting Islamist terrorism coming from American Muslims, Craig? I'd be interested in seeing those. You do know that supporting terrorism is a crime, right? And there are people who have been charged and convicted of doing so. Currently serving prison sentences....

....So no apology for misquoting me on ducks? You're a stand-up guy, Craig.

You can liken 'intel' folks to the granny with her rosary beads or kindergarteners actually learning something at school. The kids and granny are paying for the handful of pedophiles and their co-conspirators. Catholic financial statements are public record, there is income and there're payouts. Payouts for the transgressions of a few are on the increase and education budgets are being trimmed. Wouldn't it follow that 'intel' should pay their fair share?

As to the use of phrases, the top fellow's 'job' has been to direct that long alphabet list you mentioned on the ways of pc. Maybe, you have the luxury of retirement to be able to speak with accuracy, sometimes?

I honestly don't think you're interested in 'seeing' what you'd rather not. Aren't you the fellow that said google was your friend? For grins, less than a week ago, a large chic. newspaper reported that this admin hasn't charged or prosecuted terror fundraisers thinly veiled as charities in the US since Feb. of '09. Are you sure it's a crime if policy is selective prosecution?

Back to the ducks eh Larry. Please don't stoop to personal attacks. You've hurt my feelings. Luckily since lead shot has been banned, I can feel like a duck with water running off my back. I won't try to contradict settled science, quotes might only be confused with intolerance, hate talk and the current revised stance that lead might come from elsewhere.

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Hey, did anyone happen to notice any glaring errors or omissions made by our brilliant bloviating ex-CIA Intelligence Analyst when he admonished jOe by claiming that the shooters at Virginia Tech and Sandy Hook schools have killed way more Americans since 1998 than all of the Muslim terrorist attacks in the U.S. and Europe combined?

Originally Posted By: L. Brown
But since you raised the issue of Muslim terrorists . . . did you know that in February 1998, old Osama Bin Laden himself issued a fatwa telling Muslims everywhere that it was their duty to kill Americans, however they could? And he even provided excellent examples, using his Al Qaeda organization to attack our embassies in Kenya and Tanzania in 1998; the USS Cole in 2000; and of course 9/11. So . . . what's happened in the 18+ years since Bin Laden called for Muslims all over the world to rise up and kill Americans? (And remember: We have several million Muslims in this country, and several hundred million non-Muslim Americans. So no shortage of opportunity, right?) You know what? The school shooters at Sandy Hook and Virginia Tech--non-Muslim wackos--killed more people in just those two attacks than Americans killed by Muslims in this country and in Europe. You bet, you hear a lot of hate being spewed in the name of Islam. But you know what? The vast majority of Muslims aren't doing anything about it. And who's fighting ISIS in Iraq and Syria? And the Taliban in Afghanistan? Mostly other Muslims. They're killing way more of THEM than they're killing of US.


Hang on to your seat old colonel. If I didn't point this out, people like you might actually think Larry Clown is smart:

26 people were killed at Sandy Hook Elementary School.

32 people were killed at Virginia Tech.

Now for the juicy parts that our brilliant ex-CIA Intelligence Analyst missed---

14 people were killed recently by Muslim terrorists in San Bernardino

13 U.S. Military soldiers were killed by Muslim Colonel Nidal Hasan, shouting "Allahu Akbar" at Ft. Hood.

A total of 90 Americans have been killed in 47 seperate Muslim terror attacks on U.S. soil since 9-11. Here's a link to the attacks and numbers killed and wounded. Where I went to school, 90 was more than 58.

https://www.thereligionofpeace.com/attacks/american-attacks.aspx

2977 people died in the 911 attacks, but somehow Larry Clown the brilliant ex CIA Intelligence Analyst thinks that 58 is greater than 2977. But it isn't just Americans who are getting killed:

150 people died in terrorist attacks in Western Europe in 2015.

196 people were killed in Muslim terror attacks in 2004 alone, including 191 deaths in the Madrid, Spain attacks.

56 were killed in London in an Al Qaeda suicide bombing in 2005.

35 were killed in March of this year in Brussels Belgium.

This is just some highlights, and does not include the total of many smaller attacks. And for some odd reason that is very disrespectful to Veterans everywhere, Larry doesn't even mention the number of American soldiers who have been killed or wounded as a result of Muslim terror in Iraq and Afghanistan. Here is a link to a chart for terror deaths in the European Union alone showing that Larry is either misleading us... or he is a complete idiot:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terrorism_in_the_European_Union

So, in my opinion, we would all be better off having this guy analyzing the Muslim terror risks than Larry Clown:








A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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Originally Posted By: keith

Hang on to your seat old colonel. If I didn't point this out, people like you might actually think Larry Clown is smart:


I think you are smart and say some good things now and again, though not all the time. Not in the best way to serve the ideas you seem to espouse.

I think Larry is smart and says some good things now and again, though not all the time, as you note in the repetitive extreme.

I think I am smart enough to know a few good things and mess up other things time to time. My most recent stupidity is my attempt at asking for civility and arguments based on issues than personal attack.

You style of personal attack argument clouds the question I made to Larry which was what was the source for his eagle casualty fact, which was per him a government press release (but unfortunately he did not provide a link to it)

I take the hypocrisy of the left on "green energy" amongst other things to heart.

Not sure why you can't also believe that point of the left's two faced approach of going after guns and lead while massacring eagles, a supposed critical to be saved and protected resource per their normal mode of operation, is very sad and speaks to the character of their policies.

Your one trick pony approach is a rather tiresome and not very imaginative pounding. You could use your energy far more productively. I imagine you have a huge cut and paste file set up to proliferate our webpages.

Larry brought a good fact out and I simply wanted to know more on it. Why would you not want to know more about it, I know you care about the way the left pursues their agenda?

BTW I agree the statement below is erroneous and rather silly. Though I do not know when Larry made it or the complete context of the conversation (i don't care to research it), I definitely disagree with it in the context you present it.

"The school shooters at Sandy Hook and Virginia Tech--non-Muslim wackos--killed more people in just those two attacks than Americans killed by Muslims in this country and in Europe."

You are right that the facts simply don't even come close and you do a good job laying out some numbers. Not sure why you have to ice the arguments with personal slights and dispersions.

I doubt my words will have any impact on your method. I realize that I am foolish to bother. I will have to simply read around your and others cut and paste purgations.


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old colonel, in the words of Ronald Reagan, "there you go again!" It is clear to anyone with a brain that you are going to great lengths to criticize me while totally ignoring the same behavior of personal attacks from Larry Brown. One major difference is that I have not bolstered my criticism of Larry by bragging about my supposed accomplishments and posting wildly inaccurate information.

Apparently, you are so intent on criticizing and silencing me that you have failed to notice my frequent notice of the hypocrisy and "two-faced" approach used by the Left to advance things like gun control and lead ammo-bans. All through the aforementioned Lead and Condors thread, I noted all of the junk science that is used by environmentalists and the Left to advance lead ammo bans. I have probably done the same hundreds of times here anytime the subject comes up.

Yes, you are foolish to bother attempting to change me because, once again, you show us that you are the real one-trick pony here who is being anything but fair and balanced in your approach. I would say, Nice try, but it was actually pretty lame. Please do read around my posts since you don't like them. It's apparent that you see only what you want to see anyway.


A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.

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