doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Theodore Roosevelt on critics

I have never said to you to be silent. I have asked all on this website to argue issues and avoid personal attacks.

Sir, this is just an observation.

Larry's fact was off topic, unrelated to an off topic thread. Nothing wrong with wanting to know more about it. Did he assist or just use the one trick pony approach of repeating the same thing he mentioned the first time.

It read to me like a personal jab rather than a community service announcement. You may have notice that he said he was completely satisfied that all lead sources combined didn't kill near as many eagles as the windmill policy. Yet, it takes a bit of round and round to come to the conclusion that a group of hunters would have to listen to him demonize lead bullets, along with the eagle folks, except for deer isn't his passion nor their hunters his audience.

Keep in mind, he's stating that gun deer hunters, in the short Wisconsin gun deer season, are responsible for, not all, eagle lead poisoning, all year round, because it's a fact that they don't recover wounded game. One of the things that I tried to go over was the source of this concept, but that along with other points of view are enough to call manhood into question. Weird huh.

Do not disagree with your estimate as to Larry's statements on lead which I do not believe are supported by all the facts as I know them.

I was just seizing on an actual useful fact I wanted to know more about.

My point to all of this is while I may disagree with Larry and others, I can still find something good in what they have said.

I actually have a very negative view toward wind power and non toxic shot which makes the combination of facts something I do care about.

My overall point is for reasoned argument, not the tone and personal stuff I so often see. Keith maybe right in that I have zeroed in on him as he is the high volume poster that finally got my goat. I do not pretend he is unique or that others to include Larry have not contributed.

I am not trying to silence anyone. I am saying show some class.

The funny thing about the long conversation is that on the actual issues being discussed I believe I agree with Keith on the essence in terms of the non-toxic issue, gun rights issue, and other stuff too.

I doubt you will ever see me argue for the greenies unless it is to a hunter's benefit or with the dem's on guns.

Sadly, another thread that deteriorated into a name calling mud slinging contest.

YUP, Anytime Keith posts anything, you can just ignoring that thread...Its done....Too bad some of them actually start out pretty interesting...

Why don't you like me Last Dollar? Is it because I never forget that you are one of the biggest hypocrites on this board? You always had a problem with anything related to our 2nd Amendment rights here, no matter how civil things were going. But you never had a problem with anything totally off-topic that you approved of. And name calling? Yeah, you were always very good at ad hominem attacks... without cries of incivility from the F.A.G.'s (Fake Ass Gentlemen--- thanks lonesome roads!)

Do you recall this little ethnic slur laced rant aimed directly at Jim that you posted right here in the main Double Gun forum?



My favorite off-topic thread by you was "On Folding A Tent", when you packed up your panties and announced to us that you were leaving and would never return. I know you expected everyone to beg you to stay, and laughed my ass off when so many here essentially said good riddance. King Brown and Ed Good asked you to stay, which came as no surprise. Isn't King President of the F.A.G. Club? Now you look like a fool, which is what you have always been anyway. Maybe you should have returned under a new screen name like Alvin Linden did. He's now posing as a young girl who calls herself gunluvr now. But don't tell anyone. It's a secret!

I like the double gun knowledge we get here, but getting a look into the dishonest and warped mind of the Liberal Left is just icing on the cake!

Edit: I see you reading this post old colonel. Don't do it... you'll just get your blood pressure up! Oh crap. Too late.

P.S.- I don't really believe that if the tables were turned this morning, and I had posted some wildly inaccurate information, and Larry Brown had called me out on it and ridiculed me and ridiculed my intellect for it, that you would have lectured him as you did to me. Nope, not for a second. Too much evidence to the contrary.

Pretty kool...Right back where you started! Thanks for your input...

OK, boys, on eagles:

www.foxnews.com/politics/2016/05/04/new-...wind-farms.html

You can find this reported in a lot of places if you google. But I wanted to find a good conservative source so people wouldn't think it was just the raptor fans getting excited over nothing. I think Fox News passes the test.

Craig, that may be one of the more convoluted paragraphs that I've ever read. If I want to respond to something YOU said, I QUOTE YOU. (As I just did.) If you want to respond to something I said--assuming you want to have an intelligent and accurate discussion rather than playing some stupid "gotcha" game--how about you extend me the same courtesy? In the above case, as best I can untangle your grammar, I didn't say anything remotely like what you expressed in your quote. It is certainly a fact that deer hunters do not recover all wounded game. It is also a fact--which can be verified by a whole lot of people who just happen to be driving down the road and spot a dead deer--that eagles scavenge deer carcasses. It is also a fact that raptor rehabilitators have reported that the source of lead poisoning in at least SOME eagles is bullet fragments. It is also a fact that those reports make it into the media. (Those same raptor rehabilitators also report that the number of sick and dead eagles they deal with increases during and immediately after gun deer season.) I can provide examples of reports of that nature, if you'd like.

Now . . . if I were a deer hunter, I'd be concerned. I'd like to see some research done to determine to what extent (if any?) lead fragments from bullets result in eagles dying from lead poisoning. But I'm not a deer hunter. So when I wrote my two-part article on lead shot in Pointing Dog Journal, I looked at the threat ingested lead SHOT (not lead bullets, since we upland hunters don't shoot lead bullets at the birds we hunt) posed to either upland birds or any other species, especially eagles (since they get so much attention). This was partially in response to a Wisconsin Natural Resources Board proposal to ban lead shot on all DNR-managed land--which was soundly voted down by those of us who attended the DNR's annual spring meeting. And at my meeting, I stood up and gave my reasons for opposing the proposal. In the article, I also looked at the threat that eating wild game, most of which is taken with either lead shot or lead bullets, poses to humans--and determined that that threat also appears to be negligible . . . unless maybe you leave all the lead pellets in the birds you shoot, then intentionally swallow them.

And more recently, I provided the additional information on the thousands of eagles the USFWS is proposing to allow wind energy companies to kill, every year. And suggested that, just in case ANY of us that shoot lead at whatever are challenged by the raptor fans on eagles dying from lead poisoning, that if reducing eagle deaths is their REAL concern, then they ought to talk to the USFWS about all those eagles they want to allow wind farms to kill.

All of which seems quite reasonable and straightforward to me. But I'll be glad to answer any questions . . . as long as they're based on something I actually said (preferably right here, since I've said enough to give people the general drift of my positions) and not on something someone else SAYS I said, without doing me the courtesy of quoting me. That's how we play the "intelligent discussion" game, where I come from.

I read you Larry, loud and clear, and feel similar myself. Though I feel many things are stupid, I've never characterized your efforts in that manner. In a convoluted way, I tried to sum up what is meant by throwing deer hunters under the bus. You see, if I would've mentioned that again, I already know your position is to make fun of it. I promise to quote best I can, but I am still tech incapable of grabbing comments from other topics, and I'm not really motivated at this time to learn.