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Larry, you placed a quote that you made into a "quote box" with my name on it, which made it appear that I said those words. I know you like to put words in my mouth, but this is getting ridiculous. It was quite evident earlier that you were indeed mocking Francis for his use of Spanish even though you said that you don't speak Spanish. But as usual, you feel the pathetic need to move heaven and earth to ever avoid admitting that you were wrong. My real point was to illuminate your hypocrisy for being critical of a military veteran (RWTF- U.S. Marine Corps) only a few weeks after you piously lectured me about the special respect that veterans deserve. Most do. I respect your service, but I don't respect you personally because you have repeatedly shown us that you are a bloviating douche bag with exceedingly poor reading comprehension.

I still think it was laughable that you attempted to quell my opinion while vociferously defending the anti-gun rhetoric of King Brown, Ed Good, and even John Kerry.

I'm not surprised about the USFWS permitting the wind power industry to kill thousands of bald eagles annually. Most Liberal environmentalists are nearly as hypocritical as you Larry. Don't forget Larry, it was you who went on and on for days in the recent Condor thread supporting the ridiculous notion that deer hunter's lead bullets were fragmenting into hundreds of pieces of toxic shrapnel. And like Herbert Hoover promising a chicken in every pot, you were pushing the idiotic idea of careless hunters providing a lead tainted deer carcass for every eagle. No Larry, those were not your exact words, so don't get your panties in a knot. But you were blaming lead bullets for sickening and killing eagles while refusing to accept that there are many more bio-available sources of lead that kill birds. Do you recall saying this in your post #433166 on 1/18/16?

"Keith, the majority of road-killed deer I saw in northern Wisconsin had bald eagles doing the cleanup. Our problem in that part of the country, obviously not related to condors, didn't have anything to do with either cattle or gut piles. Rather, with wounded and unrecovered deer. That's where the eagles were picking up the lead fragments. Unfortunately, the WI Natural Resources Board thought the solution was to ban lead SHOT on all DNR controlled lands . . . when there was no real evidence of eagles ingesting lead shot, now that we're no longer shooting lead at waterfowl. But bird hunters were an easier target than deer hunters. However, we were fortunate enough to shoot down that idea before it became policy."

I am glad that debate is still sticking in your craw. Maybe you'll want to cry to Dave again to get this thread locked too.

Mil gracias, amigo, para sus palabres. Y por el otro cabron aqui-- "En la boca de la Puta grande"!! El Zorro

OMIGOD..Not the lead shot thing again...............

I'd pay serious folding $ to get steel shot repealed- old Federal Copper coated Premium 12 gauge- No. 5 shot- deadly in proper range on waterfowl- steel- same gun and choke, same est'd range- more cripples. Ain't gonna happen though!

Pretty hard to mock someone's Spanish when you don't speak the language, Keith. Even YOU aren't that smart. (And neither am I.) You quoted me; inside the quote box, the quote is correctly attributed to me. My name is right there, along with the quote. I'm pretty sure no one thought you said it . . . especially since you complained about ME saying it.

And now you're saying: "No Larry, those were not your exact words . . . " (How about my accuracy on THAT quote, Keith?)--so you flat out admit that you're misquoting me. You are a walking, talking contradiction. And nowhere did I EVER state that there are no sources of lead other than from bullets or shot that kill birds. If you have that quote, I'd like to see it. We know, for example, that woodcock often show very high blood lead levels (albeit not toxic, at least in the birds examined by the WI DNR). And we also know that the lead in question may very well come from either the soil in which they probe for worms, or the worms they eat, or both. And we also know that no lead shot was found in the digestive systems of the woodcock examined by the WI DNR. So, in that case, no proof that the lead came from what hunters are putting into the environment.

Now any time you'd like to get your facts STRAIGHT about what I have or have not said, have at it. Preferably in a thread about eagles dying. Personally, I'd doubt that ALL sources of lead come anywhere close to killing the thousands of eagles that the USFWS wants to allow the wind energy companies to kill annually. Just to put various causes of eagle deaths into perspective.

Ernest Hemingway wrote in "True At First Light" about killing eagles, using his dead horse "Kite" for bait-and with a .22 Winchester (M61?)-and then running down a wounded eagle, picking him up by his legs, and bashing his head against a rock until the eagle screamed like the 101st AB-and then gave up. I have nothing against killing eagles, or geese that fubar jet aircraft and cause airplane crashes- but not like old Don Ernesto did.

One of the facts that we had a tough time keeping straight was why you have the preference of leaving one group of hunters at the mercy of anti gun and hunting policy makers. I don't know why, but you introduced deer hunters, then brushed them off to fend for themselves.

Since you have put eagle deaths into perspective, with regards to lead, was that feeling or science based? Policy makers using the same perspective as you? Vilifying hunters or shooters who may prefer to use lead projectiles all good as long as it's not upland wingshooting?

And please Larry, the service is cutting some big bad corporate deal at the expense of wildlife, they are condoning political policy by signaling the amount of latitude they expect from influential supporters.

Boy Larry, you are dense. It was quite obvious that you were mocking a fellow veteran, RWTF when you posted this only two posts after he posted the only Spanish up to that point within this thread:



I've come to expect you to try to weasel out of things like this, but you really aren't fooling anyone. Then you go on to further illustrate your exceedingly poor reading comprehension. Even after I specifically took the time to point out that something I wrote was not your words, knowing that you'd likely jump to insane and incorrect conclusions, you still ignorantly took that as some admission by me that I am misquoting you.

If we could turn your brain into small round shot, we could get 2 or more ounces into a 2 1/2" .410 shell because it would be more dense than pure tungsten or even depleted uranium!

Now, I don't expect you to understand this either, but the birds I was referring to in my previous post were the EAGLES that you had told us were feeding heavily upon road killed deer. Here's the exact words I used: "But you were blaming lead bullets for sickening and killing eagles while refusing to accept that there are many more bio-available sources of lead that kill birds."Nobody was talking about woodcocks in that sentence Larry, and you spent a great deal of time in the Lead and Condors thread blaming deer hunters bullets for lead poisoning in eagles. Why don't you go back and read it again. The thread is locked after you cried to Dave, so you can't even edit or delete the things you said.

My facts are straight Larry. And it is apparent that craigd hasn't forgotten how you were throwing deer hunters and their lead bullets under the bus. It's you who is attempting to twist things in order to run away from your hypocrisy concerning respect for veterans after dumping on RWTF. A man would just apologize and move on... so I'm definitely not expecting that you will apologize to Francis. And let's remember that you are the one who took this off-topic thread even further into left field by bringing up the USFWS permitting thousands of eagle deaths due to wind generators. Here's some French for you to translate since you don't speak Spanish:

Larry est un douchebag ignorant

Here are the facts: Deer hunters (and other big game hunters, but mostly deer in my part of the world) have to deal with the fact that eagles are dying from lead poisoning. Lead shot, as opposed to lead fragments, is pretty easy to identify. So, unless those examining dead eagles are finding lead SHOT in the birds' digestive system, bird hunters are pretty much in the clear. Not so with eagles, which--as anyone who lives in places where eagles and deer coexist will verify--scavenge dead deer. And we know that hunters don't recover all the deer they shoot. So if those eagles have ingested lead fragments, those concerned with eagles dying are going to make the connection to shot but unrecovered deer. Deer hunters can ignore that if they wish, but I don't think that's a good idea--because the charge won't go away just because they ignore it. Given their numbers, seems to me they'd be smart to do some research and attempt to identify the specific source of any lead fragments found in dead eagles' digestive systems.

That being said, the point I was making with the thousands of eagles USFWS wants to allow the wind energy companies to kill annually--which seems to have escaped Keith and Craig--is this: Even if the occasional eagle dies from ingesting lead fragments from bullets (or, for that matter, lead shot), it is likely that the lead poisoning deaths directly related to hunting are only a tiny percentage of those caused by wind turbines. So if the eagle lobby's agenda is really to protect eagles and not to attack hunters and hunting, then they're obviously expending their effort in the wrong direction.

And Keith, your French . . . isn't. But I'll use the verb from which "ignorant" comes and apply it to you . . . as in ignoring you, since you have nothing of interest to contribute. And when you quote YOURSELF, that's not quoting ME. You can't find any quote from me in which I am "refusing to accept that there are many more bio-available sources of lead that kill birds." Only someone as ignorant as the guy you see when you look in the mirror would believe that only lead from bullets or shot might be the only source of lead poisoning in eagles . . . or any other BIRDS. (Note the last word of your quote. You switched from eagles in specific to birds in general. Hence, the validity of my reference to the potential source of lead in woodcock . . . which is a bird, isn't it?) I rest my case.

Lead in the woodcock? How about Jack Nicholson's great line in "Terms of Endearment" to Shirley-- "Lead in the pencil-wind in your hair"- as they are doin' donuts on the beach in his plastic Chevy--RWTF- Le Renaud??