doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Invisible sleeve joints and damascus

Hi, just wondered what your opinions are and whether there's been any research done on the subject ?
If sleeving is the only option to save a beautiful old gun, the Tig work is done properly and they're struck up well , the job would certainly be pleasing to the eye , but I've often wondered what ( if any ? ) effect there is to the area immediately next to the welds on the old damascus or laminated breech end of the joint ?
I realise there's a nice sleeve of new steel running through and into the chamber, but after seeing instances where different metals have cracked or broken off next to the weld through either the wrong filler rod being used, the black magic of chemistry or lack of necessary heat treatment it got me thinking. I'm not an expert welder but have worked as a fabricator in the past.
Could the heat, even though it's localised, compromise the structure or integrity of the original blacksmith welded tube ?
Any input or ideas Gentlemen ?

Thanks for the inquiry, and I'm also interested in some learned opinions...from a gentleman...who has actually worked with pattern welded metal.

This is a c. 1867 MacNaughton of Edinburgh 12b sleeved from damascus to steel...back to damascus; with silver between all 4 joints; by John Foster and Graham Bull. Courtesy of David Trevallion.





I wonder if the silver 'spacer' was for more than just cosmetics?

Here's a crolle to ? laminated steel by Keith Kearcher that also appears to have a spacer

This may sound like a daft question but are they spacers or silver solder joints which have been wiped down or filed to suit ?
I only ask because I've not seen it before.

With the pattern matching problems that are sure to arise, are invisible joints an important goal?

What is the objection to the joint being visible? Either in sleeving or monobloc?

The business reminds me of the comedy duo Morecamb and Wise of the 60s, Morecamb was constantly teasing Wise about the joint of his toupee, especially when a show guest had a hair style hinting at a toupee. The line was "you can't see the joint on his".

I suppose thhe ring (as suggested) could perhaps be the "root gap" of the soldered joint?

TIG 'Invisible Sleeving'; c. 1890 William Cashmore, Birmingham 12b sleeved to 16b courtesy of Heritage Guns



Not so invisible; Lindner Daly



Bit more of a "gap"

Lefever G grade by Buck Hamlin, courtesy of Tom Archer

Drew, any idea what caused the blowout on the Parker?

Joe: it was a 1891 GHE Parker 10g sleeved to 12g and "restored". I have no information as to the wall thickness of the tube that blew, or who did the "restoration". The case colors to do not appear to be ol' Ed's work.