doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion Classic & Custom Single Barreled Sporting Rifles @ doublegunshop.com S man rifles

The rifle with the highest serial number is the one with the scope and it was a 1920 NM rifle (serial in Mk1 series but not Mk1 receiver) and the SRS sales list starts with higher serial numbers than the Mk1s. I don't believe there are any known sales records for the NRA sales rifles from before WW1 from which many of these early sporters were made.
Dan

I'm 99% sure that all the S-man rifles I've seen have been stocked in black walnut. That is a rather amateurish trait, as most top makers had access to English. The style is obviously German, but I don't think S-man trained in Germany or, again, he would likely be using English walnut.

The execution on these rifles is excellent. When these earliest rifles were being made style had not been established yet, so we can't really hold style against him.

If I were on TV making a profile of this guy I'd say he had access to and appreciated the best rifles being made at the time, at the very least photographs. The skill displayed on them says he knows his way around a chisel, maybe a cabinet maker or such. The black walnut makes me think he may have had access to a cheap supply. Again, maybe a cabinetmaker with a relationship with a sawmill etc.

Just some thoughts

Dan, are there clear pictures of the jeweling of the bolts? The one pictured, #657,895 together with the use of Black Walnut, full checkering coverage, and the shape of the grip would point me to early John Oberlies. Oberlies was an exceptional mechanic and machinist, but his earlier identified guns were more crude and possibly unmarked. Of course, there should have been a transition period. My earliest Oberlies gun was built in 1934 and exhibits less than his best work of the next few years. I have seen earlier guns that were quite crude. I don't think Michael had much of a file of pictures of Oberlies guns to compare the S Man guns to. He and I were planning to get together to do an Oberlies chapter in his next book, but, sadly, we didn't get to it. The Oberlies gun sold in the auction was not a full Oberlies custom, but a conversion of a military stock. He had not owned that gun for long when he died and possibly did not do a comparison with S Man guns. I wish I knew more. Bill Murphy in MD.

I think the 2 rifles I have and the ones Dan has were made by different men. The S shape on the pistol grips was common on earlier single shot rifles and higher grade lever action guns. when I removed the buttplate on #657895 it was obvious that it was probably made from a blank,it was marked in pencil; 2285611, RJB and ODL. When is anybodies guess, also the buttplate is identical to the ones used on Fox shotguns from pre WW1 to the 1920s. There was nothing under the buttplate on gun #2 and the plate was not original as it didn't fit well. The 2 guns were made by the same person and probably made by the maker of the gun in Michaels book.

Bill,

Good to hear from you again, I haven't made it to Baltimore the last two years. The 657,895 rifle belongs to James. None of my S-man rifles has any bolt jeweling but I do have an Oberlies bolt (just the bolt).

Dan

Any markings on your Oberlies bolt? Maybe it's the scope bolt for my 03 which will not allow a scope to be used with the bolt that came with the gun. However, I will not bend my bolt. How about giving me a shot at that bolt? Thanks. Bill Murphy

Dan, now I recall that the bolt I need to make my rifle funtional with a scope is a Model 54 Winchester, not an 03 Springfield. However I would be interested in your bolt, whatever it is. Thanks. Bill

Bill,

I don't really want to get rid of the bolt. But Fred has some photos of it that he can post so people can see the Oberlies jeweling, etc. The bolt is for an 03 and is bent for a scope.

Dan

I forgot to mention that I had no luck finding out what part of the country the full stocked S-man came from. The seller had it for so many years he couldn't remember where he got it.
Dan

Here are pictures of that bolt of Dan's