doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Guidance Wanted - Webley and Scott

From your description, at 90% condition, with all the features of a choice upland gun, you should expect to pay at the top of the range for this type of gun. You will look at a lot of dogs to find another in 90% condition, if you are comfortable with that description.
I will refrain on pricing because our prices are generally lower than US prices. The range quoted does not seem like scary numbers to me if this is the gun that feels right.
Remember also, that this is a gun that you can handle and examine, not an elusive, possible gun out on the Internet.
I will say that I have more regrets about really nice guns that I didn't buy, than any that I paid right up to top market price.

Tom, go to www.hillrodandgun.com. Scroll down until you come to the Webley & Scott priced at $5800. Yours sounds to me like the same gun: drop points, bushed pins, virtually full coverage extremely well-executed small scroll engraving, carved leaves on the fences, wedges of engraving on the barrel breaches. That would be a Model 400 Grade 1. I have a dead twin to the gun shown on the Hill website. With apologies to Researcher, the number he gave you would be about average price for a Webley & Scott Model 700 in decent condition, which is a good, solid gun but doesn't compare to a 400 Grade 1. (Mine also has extremely nice wood, and it looks like the Hill gun does as well.) With apologies to Researcher, I think those guns approach the level of "boxlock best". You can pay more for a name, but you won't see many Brit boxlocks of better quality than a 400 Grade 1. (The Brits went backwards, and the Grade 1 was the top grade; then the Grade 2; Grade 3, pretty plain, at the bottom.

With a 1 1/4 oz proof it has original 2 3/4" chambers. I have a grade 3 model 400 with the screwgrip locking from 1906 and it has become a favorite skeet gun. Finish work inside and outside is just amazing. I also have a model 500 which is a notch up and has a fancy back. Few of these were made.

Larry, I think you were talking about me, not Researcher.

OK, BV3-OQ5 (best work BLE)-CC2 (limited use) = $4,208.

BV3-OQ5-CC1 (pristine) = $6,021

Opinions as to the described gun being a Model #400 and/or the #400 being a "best work gun"?

DDA

FWIW;
If the proof marks on your gun are 1.1/4oz then this would have had 2.75" chambers & was likely a model 300.

The model 400 was proofed for 1.1/8oz shot with 2.1/2" chambers.

I had a similar age (ca 1921) grade 3 (border engraved) model 400 that had been sold/stamped as W.& C. Scott & Sons, 55 Victoria Street, London, England (Webley/Scott's London office in early 1920s used for the export business). It had Disc set strikers, ejectors, screw grip, 30" barrels, Nicely figured wood & weighed about 6lb 10oz. It was lovely to hunt with.

A few things I found out about these "Proprietary" model (300 & 400) guns of this period. They were supposed to be simplified basic working tools meant to stand up to rough treatment and local mechanics far from the "civilized" world.

W&S used provisional 1925 proof markings from at least 1921 onward. A model 400 would (usually/always?) be proofed for 1.1/8oz shot which meant 2.5" chambers in a light game gun. The model 300 was identical except being proofed for 1.1/4oz shot with 2.75" chambers and being a slight bit heavier. Neither of them were marked with model #.
The Screw grip was one of the features of these models.

There was a noted English trap shooter (name escapes me for the moment) who used the model 300 extremely successfully. He apparently liked the idea that he could routinely use this low-class off-the-shelf working man's tool to beat up on the proper gentlemen with their bespoke purpose-made London Best guns. He had his collected Medals covering his gunstock like a Gypsy which apparently gave him great pleasure & his competitors considerable irritation.

This info was gleaned from the Crawford/Whatley Webley & Scott book and cross-referencing with some W&S catalogs & product sheets.

YMMV

I think this is what you referring to;
http://www.thefield.co.uk/reviews/gun-reviews/percy-stanburys-webley-scott

I had not heard the story quite as you have described it above. Percy Stanbury was a well known and highly respected shot and coach. I have met a couple of his pupils, and he has been described as a wonderful coach and perfect gentleman.
There area couple of books he co-wrote (with G.L. Carlisle) still around.

More here http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=344582

Rocketman--Sorry. Yes, meant that for you. Thanks for responding. My Model 400 Grade 1 dates from 1924, It does have 2 3/4" chambers which appear to be original. Can't see any indication they've been lengthened. But chamber length was not required as a proofmark until 1925, so not marked that way.

If Tom responds to my post and checks out the Hill Rod & Gun website, we'll know whether he has a Model 400 Grade 1. Has a lot of bells and whistles not found on basic boxlocks, and absolutely incredible small scroll engraving.

I'm not.

If I were considering the gun I would like to know the length of the chokes. If the barrels started out at 28" it doesn't seem that a 1/2" trim would keep the tubes from touching. Unless that gun shows up in a contemporaneous Webley and Scott catalogue advertising the availability of 27-1/2" barrels I would discount the gun for having had the barrel slightly trimmed.

70 CM would be approximately 27 9/16" (27.559" actually) but of course when this gun was built England was not on the metric system. It seems that during this era many barrel tubes were supplied by Belgian makers but these were normally I believe shipped as rough tubes & the makers finished them up to even lengths in inch increments.

The Scott book has Stanbury shooting a W&S 400, not a 300. But not much difference in price between a 300 and a 400 Grade 3 (the basic model).