doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Sterling worth Price?

Gentlemen,

I have visited a 1925-26 12ga field grade Fox in near new condition except for a crack in the right panel and another putty repair in the fence/tang corner. The rest of the wood is very good with only very minor marks at the butt and the forearm is perfect. Barrell bluing is nice. 28" modified and full. the asking price is $1000. I am thinking $800. but don't want to pay more than $750. cause the governor is gonna factor in too. I also don't need it, but well you know. Opinions please? Hows my math?

Thanks to all,

Kurt

You might factor in the $100-200 to properly repair the cracks and glasbed the head of the stock. And what load was someone shooting in the gun to crack the stock? If it was steel, the chokes may no longer be M/F. Also check the chamber length, possibly 2 5/8".
And BTW Craig Libhart is in your neighborhood and does great work:
Susquehanna Stockworks
Bainbridge, PA (717) 367-3414
http://susquehannastockworks.com/about.htm

I have no idea if you're right on the national average resale of 12 ga. Sterlingworths if that's what you're asking. Sticker shock number 1000, prognosticated what he'll take 800, your max 750. Clearly you have put your faith in a "mathematics" which compells you to offer less that 750. Might be question of osmotic pressure: how bad the gun wants to move from his sytem to yours. I look at the prices on GunsInternational and come away despairing of a successful buying strategy. If it was the local consignment rack where I am a frequent flier, I'd notice when the guy's losing hope because the shop keeps recording the periodic markdowns on the hangtag. Eventually, I get the "been here a while" notification from the clerk. They don't like to wear out their feather duster for 20%. Blustering about balls out is not a productive strategy for either buyer or seller IMO. Time is the best reality check. But since you asked, I doubt if the customary and usual offering as a fraction of the "sky's the limit" asking is much less than 2/3.

jack

Drew's method of discounting for defects on the "cost to repair" is an attractive strategy for buyers and one that may work occasionally; pushed too far I believe it leads to an unsuccessful negotiation. The logical extension of this thinking is find enuf defects, cost them out item by item price to correct and the gun is worth? How about less than nothing. This is most likely the case with a lot of bottom feeder junk but I don't see many minimally operational shotguns which will bring less than 200$. Conversely, the seller could I imagine also itemize all the features of operation and cosmetics which don't require correction and cost them out a la carte as if they did. The price tag then wouldn't be 150% or 200% of what the market will bear on a used gun; it would be 500%. The real question on shooters is can I live with the defects? rather than Can I get the seller to buy me a new gun? The answer to the second question is No.

jack

'Discounting for defects' never has much worked for me Jack. It is however an important reality check to work through. That's why I always carry a blunt stick to gun shows and gun shops with which to stab myself in the eye prior to making an offer on the 100 year old gun with 'issues' that I just can't live without- "Will buying this gun be worth that pain?"

No, because you don't need it.

Jagerguy: Redemptive suffering doesn't count?
(Actually, I let my wife carry the blunt stick. Avoids the 'I told you so's' later)

Drew,
If redemptive suffer counts when it comes to guns, I am a sure bet to walk through the gates! I have a closet full of guns with issues (redemptive suffering).

Kurt,
12GA Philly Sterlingworths are not a rare commodity. You can easily spend $1500+ to restock it. On the other hand, you could pick up a low grade replacement stock and do the fitting, etc yourself for much less. So, ask yourself which path you want...

As for the price, you should be very close to the mark. If you get it, be sure to write for the factory info.

Pete

Dayum, I have jut got to get me one of those sticks!!!!

I didn't look high and low for my Philly Sterlingworth, it was kinda just there, but the better standard 12s start in the 1k area and work-up from there.
The good ones are going fast.
The below 1k were a little crusty imho, but hey, I know some are slicksters and got the good deals.

LG, I wouldn't describe myself as a slickster but there are guns which are overvalued and some which are undervalued (because you want it and he doesn't). Could be any number of reasons--an off-the-rack fit, a configuration you're seeking. Law of averages says you'll find a few relative bargains even in the heady, high-pressure world of garden variety clunkers. :+P

jack

I will second Revdocdrew's suggestion of Craig Libhart as a go to guy for stock work. He repaired the wrist on my JP Sauer hammergun, that was broken in two and the repair is invisible. I know where the break was, and srill can't see it. he did it in less time than quoted, and at a much better price. He will be doing any stock work I need from now on.

The only thing I regret not buying was minty Heym Express .416 Rigby with factory swing mount and Swarovski 1.5-4.5x20 scope for pitiful $3800.
It's among the best double square bridge actioned mags out there, and only ERA iron sights and wood blank is not made in Heymhof. I disdain this modular assembly concept with the barrel from one guy, action from another,.....

Thank you all for your replies! I am going to check the gun again and I'm almost hoping it has 2&1/2" chambers as this means little to me as a reloader and since it is not mentioned on the tag may interest this dealer in a quicker sell. "You know its not safe to shoot modern shells in those things"? As to the cracks I also wonder how a gun in such condition came by them? It leads me again to the 2&1/2" chamber theory. I well remember the stout kick from another gun I own and was unaware it took 2&1/2s. As I have said I really don't need it and shouldn't buy it, but if I can get the gentleman to my price I feel I have made an obligation. So we'll see! I enjoyed each of your replies so thanks again!

Kurt

Not meaning you Rabbit sorry!
I check the sites, and I don't see many great buys out there, but yet there are chaps who say they're getting nice Sterlingworths on the cheap.
Makes me wonder?

LG: no need for apology; I'd be as slick as I could be if there was suddenly a slick shortage. And, yes I did get a Philly 16 recently for less than 500$. Good buy? Yes, in the context of current demand it might be. Defects? Exterior pitting right barrel and small area of rib about midway and right choke opened to cyl. Good points? Solid stock head tight to frame; no spreading, no cracks. Tight solid lockup and no lateral play open, lever still to right of center. I've seen at least two 16SWs from the same shop, one with aft section of under-rib missing and the other with a sadly inadquate replacement stock leave at around 750, 800. This is a target shooter/deer hunter shop and not a particularly strong link in the doublegun food chain but there do seem to be some folks who come in willing to pay for sorry (and sorrier) condition in these guns. I am one.

jack

The way I figure it Rabbit - we live in a world of 8-10k shotguns, so if I paid 1150.00....I'm ok!
An easy buy, from a friendly guy.

jack, I wouldn't cry about that cyl, if your intentions are grouse or birds over tollers.

Those dogs are something else or the birds that come in to them are. Looked them up. Believe it or not, there's a Canadian rescue organization devoted to them. LG, if I have to subscribe to "tithing" proportionality when buying, I don't want to discover it's a world of hundred-thousand-dollar guns.

jack

Think I've over paid for every gun/rifle in my cabinet - I'm not much of a wheeler dealer. Its hard finding guns with that Lowell American classics factor(handsome enough - but with a hint of mudroom).

So does anyone think $600 too high for philly SW 12 ga, 30" F/M, modern demensions, solid wood free of cracks and only light scratches, tight on face, no c/c, bluing 80%, no barrel dents or bulges, smooth bores BUT......checkering nearly smooth, some pitting on left barrel around forend, small amount of pitting on left side of receiver and along underside of rib and of course, short chambers. I would be buying it to shoot it.

I don't! Sounds all cosmetic to me and I'd consider spiffing it up sometime later. For that price you could have a nice project gun that you could experiment on yourself.....gently, of course......or you could send it out for all kinds of upgrading eventually.

As additional information on this topic:

I bought a decent Utica Sterlingworth 12 gauge for $500 two years ago at a local gunshow. Cosmetics were "so-so to poor" but mechanically it was good. I then spent about a grand having it re-blued, re-casecolored, refinishing/recheckering the stock, and adding a recoil pad to lengthen the LOP. For $1,500 I ended up with a like new gun that pleases me, and I shoot decently.

I'm guessing that I could probably sell it for close to the total cost.

JERRY

Nearly smooth checkering on a Philadelphia era Sterlingworth is most common as new-out-of-the-box they had flat checkering. Shortly into the Savage-era they started getting coarse pointed-up checkering as found on Model 99 rifles.