doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Vintage Barrel Composition

I suspect the difference in the colors of the butt welds along the edges of the ribands were due to how the metals were stacked in the billet. Outer edges of iron in the billets would result in a silver line, steel would cause the black.

I'd think this was easy for the smiths, considering how they were able to manipulate and create intricate patterns.

I think a thing to consider is that the billet is generally twisted, so the steel or iron that ended up next to an eventual weld is constantly alternating. The interesting observation, is that the entire weld line not only colors uniformly, but different on different barrels.

I think Steve's right, in that the materials chosen would likely have consistently contrasting colors, but one finish may display display them a bit different than another.

The materials seem to weld very nicely, so that might imply similarity/compatibility, and there doesn't seem to be any indication of heat treatment. The color differences seem to be related to changes in the properties of the component, and maybe not the coloring of a trace element, I think as Steve noted.

This is interesting.

In 1911 Hopkins & Allen listed the �Ladies� Model (Single)� with �Decarbonized Steel�.
The No. 112 Hammerless was still listed with �American Decarbonized Steel� in 1918.
Single barrels were also listed with �Diadem Smokeless Steel� ( Researcher likely knows which models? ) as was the Marlin Model 60 single in 1923.

I�ve found no Iron & Steel Works that used the �Diadem� name. Interestingly, there was a Diadem Manufacturing Company, �Mfrs. of Celluloid Novelties� in Fitchburg, Mass.



"Crown" was the brand name of the Crown and Cumberland Steel Co., Allegany County, Maryland which was established in 1872. Related to the Panic of 1893, Crown and Cumberland Steel was sold at a trustee sale in 1894, and then reorganized as Cumberland Steel and Tinplate Co.
In 1901, the company became part of Crucible Steel http://www.crucibleservice.com/history.aspx

Hunter Arms first used "Crown" steel with the introduction of the Pigeon Gun in 1893, with barrels surely sourced in Belgium.

c. 1901 - 1903 Ithaca Gun Co. No. 3 and above models have been identified with �Crown Steel� marked on the top of the barrels

In the 1900 Edition of The Horseless Age, Volume 7, Whiteley Steel Co. of Chicago with works in Muncie, Indiana also advertised �Crown Steel�
http://books.google.com/books?id=QaFMAAAAYAAJ&pg=PA39-IA37&dq

Hunter Arms had "Crown" (and others) registered by at least 1905



Missabe Fluid Steel is interesting. The Messabi Iron Ore Range is the largest iron deposit in NE Minn. into Michigan and was (then) the only source for low phosphorus ore in the U.S.
A c. 1919 Fulton tradename gun for Comstock Arms Co., Duluth

Thought I'd add some infro from this interesting Witten steel thread here, and thanks to Bro. Raimey for his contributions
http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=445562&page=1


The Journal of the Iron and Steel Institute, Volume 31, Issue 2, 1881
�Application of Solid Steel to the Manufacture of Small Arms, Projectiles, and Ordnance�
https://books.google.com/books?id=BCJDAQAAMAAJ&pg=PA456&lpg
Canon barrel composition
Witten is listed as �Cast Steel in Crucibles� � 3 samples
Siemens-Martin is Open Hearth process � 3 samples
Bessemer � 5 samples
Nobel is M. Nobel (Alfred's brother) of the Tjef Works in Perm, Russia using the Terrenoire process with silicide of manganese. Terre Noire process was developed by Compagnie des Fonderies et Forges de Terre Noire, La Voulte et Bessages near St. Etienne
Bofors Co. of Karlskoga, Sweden (later owned by Alfred Nobel) also with silicide of manganese

���.Witten��...�Bessemer�...Siemens�..�.Bofors��..Nobel
C_____.43 - .47_____.15 - .55____.5-.55______.4 - .5_____.12
Mn____.4__________.17 - .48____.12 - .22____.36 - .61___.53
S______.035 - .045__<.01 - .015__<.01_______<.01 - .02___.02
P______.057 - .08___.016 - .042__.014 - .024__.04 - .045__.11
AISI� High P 1044�������...............����..1044���1108
Siemens is similar to AISI 1050, but with about 1/2 of the AISI standard Manganese content.


By 1890 the steel producers were obviously attempting to manipulate carbon content, along with manganese
The Mechanical and Other Properties of Iron and Steel in Connection with Their Chemical Composition, 1891
https://books.google.com/books?id=-c8xAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA30&dq
For ordnance material generally a harder and stronger kind of steel is used, although some prefer a mild steel for guns:
Terre Noire: .12% carbon;
Cammell: .14 - .19%;
Vickers: .24 - .27%;
Trubia (Spain): .23 - .33%.
Harder steels:
Firth: .34 - .4% carbon;
Whitworth: .3 - .42%;
Bofors: .35 - .45% (cast without blowholes);
Witten: .47%;
Krupp: .45 - .71%;
Terre Noire: .5 - .88% (cast without blowholes).
�A modern gun being built up of different parts which have to fulfil different duties must not be made of one and the same steel unless different mechanical properties are obtained by different processes of hardening, tempering, &c.�
Barrels for small arms:
Solingen .13%
Terre Noire .3%
Spanish .43%
Witten .47%
St. Chamond .49%
Firminy .57%
Unieux .60%

Gun Steels
https://books.google.com/books?id=-c8xAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA196&dq
��..Witten�..Whitworth�....Vickers�...�Krupp�.�...Krupp�...�Bofors
C____.47______.30 - .42_____ .24 - .27___.46 - .52____ .60 - .71___.40 - .45
Mn___.41______.24 - .31_____.22 - .23___ .07 - .13____.16 - .18___ .54 - .61
P_____.08____________________________<.01________<.01______ .02 - .05
AISI__(High P) 1044_________________________________________1042 - 1044

Bridge and chain steels were reported to be .2 - .25% carbon. Chain has been listed as a source for steel in pattern welded barrels.

And other news

In the 1902 Sears catalog, the Crescent New White Powder Wonder �Bored For Nitro Powder� is listed with �Wilson�s Welded Steel�.



In the same catalog, under the �Our Line Of Imported Double Barrel Shotguns� shows a �Greener Action� with �Wilson's Best Damascus Finish� and the T. Barker gun with �Wilson's Royal Damascus Finish�.
There are also single barrel Long Range Winner, (Crescent) New White Powder Wonder, 36� and 40� (Crescent) Single Barrel Shotgun, and Colton Fire Arms Model 1902 double all listed with �Wilson's Welded Steel�.
The 1908 catalog did not list any guns with �Wilson�s Steel�.

I just scored a 'Wilson's Welded Steel' barrel which I will ask METL to composition analyze, along with a Krupp Essen chunk courtesy of Dennis Potter, and a Twist and Crolle barrel. I suspect Wilson's will be plain 'ol Crescent decarbonized steel by another name but it might be interesting.

A c. 1910 Meriden Fire Arms �Armory Steel� barrel was Bessemer Rephosphorized Carbon Steel sorta between AISI 1211 & 1016 and had a tensile strength of 71,500 psi.

This was common of the German barrel makers. They used an extended exposure to sulfuric acid to achieve this effect.

Pete

The steel industry had moved to using coke (they had been using charcoal) to forge the iron. This caused the carbon to build up after it had combined with silicon. which in turn ruined the patterns for the barrel makers. After much work the two were able to develop an alternative formula. Part of this search included buying iron form various European sources.

Pete

To elaborate on Pete's accurate observation. We only have TWO crolle Damascus composition analysis, both specimens c. late 1890s, and both have very low carbon so it appears the Damascus makers stuck with something like "Low carbon, Low alloy AISI 1002-1005" for pattern welded barrels. I have one more crolle sample and one twist sample to analyze also.

�Manufacture of Damascus Gun-Barrels�, E. Heuse-Lemoine, 1884

From the remotest times, this industry of gun-barrel manufacturing has been practised in the Valley of the Vesdre from Nessonvaux to Chaudfontaine. Under the first French empire, our renowned barrel-smiths furnished the contingent of work people for the Imperial manufactories. At that time all the barrels for military guns were forged by hand; the preparing of the iron for these barrels was exclusively performed with charcoal and the superiority of this iron to that preparation with coaks is well known, in our day of the specialty of fire-arms as we shall show a little for further.
The barrels thus manufactured with good charcoal iron proved to be already a great progress with respect to solidity, but offered of the Damascus appearance which was visible by certain traces of the spiral produced by the appearance of the fibres or the varnish of the metal.
The steel as well as the iron for these fine Damascus barrels must be of a special quality, which is to be got in Wesphalia in Germany from the manufacturers of this metal, especially from the firm Koite of Luttringhausen which supplies as with all we want in this article in which enjoys all the great reputation for this type of article.
In this kind of curled or other fine Damascus, we may not use any other but we refined charcoal iron, because it has, contrary to the Swedish iron, the propriety of being very light colored and consequently of a contrasting hue with the steel and moreover by its natural purity contrary to the coak iron it does not require nor want to be welded at a high temperature for being purified; as we just observed it would be in discord with the steel, its alloy, which cannot and must not be exposed to excessive heat when welding. (It is the [unreadable] Stok Company at Grivegnee [Liege] which enjoys the highest reputation for the preparing these packets of lumps for welding and reducing them into stripes.)
Unfortunately the manufacturing iron by means of coaks is almost everywhere prevailed over its manufacturing with charcoal on account of the extensive use of coaks in all kinds of metallic construction and especially because it is a great deal cheaper, so that charcoal iron becomes more and more scarce.
In Belgium there are only Mess. Mineur et Son a Couvin who manufacture and furnish us this speciality of iron, which we must declare give us the greatest satisfaction by its undeniable superiority and which it is really indispensable for manufacturing fine Damascus barrels.
A great number of fruitless trials have been made with all their similar metals, among others Swedish iron which has the advantage of being fibrous but it also has a defect of being a steely nature, so that it is not produce a beautiful Damascus; it's hue is blending and confounding with that of steel, so that only an imperfect Damascus is resulting from it.
The coak-iron however is also much used in manufacturing barrels on account of its being very cheap, but it cannot be employed in manufacturing the superior kind of Damascus barrels on account of its impurities and of some other defects unseparable from its nature. Therefore it is only made use of in making common and cheap barrels.
Here is yet something to be noticed in favor of the charcoal-iron, for the stripes composed with this kind of iron may be wrung and twisted, and furnish a very fine Damascus, where the coak-iron can only imperfectly be twisted and gives a coarser Damascus.
The same observation may be made respecting the smithwork, more the man is hammering the Damas composition made with charcoal-iron, more it gains hardness and metallic elasticity, were as the contrary takes place in the same composition made up with coak-iron.


The New York Times, May 3, 1896 �Costly Belgian Gun Barrels�
The United States Consul in Liege describes, in a recent report, the manufacture of and trade in damascus gun barrels, wholly hand made, in the valley of the Vesdre in Liege Province. These barrels are for sporting guns, and the industry is many years old, the workmen in the villages in the valley being almost all gun barrel makers, and the trade descending from father to son. The best barrels are a combination of the best primary substances, welded and forged by the martelage �a froid (�cold hammering�) process; the steel comes from Westphalia, the iron is manufactured at Couvin, in Belgium; the coal, which is specially suited for the work, from the Herve� Highlands, in Belgium, while the motive power of the factories is obtained from the River Vesdre.
Medium quality barrels are made of coke iron and steel, while the superior quality, which are produced in the Vesdre Valley, are made of charcoal iron and steel. An ingenious �marriage� of these metals gives a composition which, when manufactured, guarantees the required solidity and resistance.

Apparently a difference of opinion regarding "Swedish Iron" It should be noted that Swedish iron ore was one of the few sources for low phosphorus ore.

Appleton's Dictionary of Machines, Mechanics, Engine-work, and Engineering, 1873
�It would be difficult to define what scrap iron is, or what it is not, being composed of everything in iron that has previously been manufactured, as well as of the cuttings from the various manufactories�saws and steel pens.�

�Swedish iron, known by the mark CCND, and coach-springs, form an excellent combination for Damascus barrels.�


Appleton didn't have that quite right. CCND was Russian iron from Demidoff's Works at Nisch-netagilsk
https://books.google.com/books?id=rZEBAAAAQAAJ&pg=PA150&lpg

https://books.google.com/books?id=3XY4AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA419&lpg

Or maybe not

A.H. Bogardus, Field, Cover, and Trap Shooting, 3rd Edition, 1891, "How Guns Are Made", p. 426
https://archive.org/stream/fieldcovertrapsh01boga#page/426/mode/2up

In a visit to W&C Scott&Sons, Bogardus comments on Scott's method of manufacturing Damascus barrels. The key ferrous ingredients used were old coach springs and rusty anchor chains. This would likely result in a mixture of Wrought Iron and a carbon steel with a C content of approx.; 0.5%.


The digitized copy of "How Guns Are Made" linked above does not have that reference to .5% carbon, so I'm not sure where it originated.