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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 112 Likes: 3
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 112 Likes: 3 |
Recently I picked a great example of a late Woodstock Tobin that is tight, on face and in very good condition for a 100 year gun, #188XX.
For Ted or anyone else who shoots Tobin shotguns: would you be comfortable shooting factory Kent or Winchester steel target loads through the gun? [I plan to have the 30" barrels opened from F/F to SKT/SKT]
Thx in advance.
Last edited by Olgrouser; 03/07/16 01:18 AM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,896 Likes: 110
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 5,896 Likes: 110 |
I certainly wouldn't shoot steel in any of my Tobins, or any other vintage doubles for that matter.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,430 Likes: 315
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,430 Likes: 315 |
We don't know the composition of DeMoya Steel The best of that era was AISI 1211 Rephosphorized Resulfurized Low Alloy Steel to 1045 Carbon Steel, or something in between, all of which would certainly be scored if a steel pellet came in contact with the bore. I would never shoot steel in a non-alloy barrel ie. 4140. BTW: you might find this of interest, mostly courtesy of Researcher http://www.picturetrail.com/sfx/album/view/22641451
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,071
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,071 |
I shoot low pressure Kent Pure Gold or Gamebore in my Tobins. Mind you ,I shoot those in all my vintage guns. No steel.
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 112 Likes: 3
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 112 Likes: 3 |
I have some 2-1/2" Gamebore #6 in the red and black boxes but at least one the barrels still needs to be opened.
Last edited by Olgrouser; 03/06/16 04:33 PM.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,769 Likes: 757
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,769 Likes: 757 |
I think I have owned about a half dozen Tobins, none were high grade, all were cheap, a few were used very hard, and one was not. I have handled lots of them that I didn't own. My opinion, after discussion with a pair of English trained gunsmiths, and my own experiences, is, Tobins are an antique design, that was satisfactory when most ammunition was black powder. Using high pressure ammuntion in a Tobin, say above 7-8000 PSI, will quickly render the gun unusable, and unrepairable. I have seen an off face Tobin, but, much more commonly, the frame bends. Between the cut for the lug of the barrel, and all the material hogged out for the inner workings (the single part carried on the sideplates is the sear spring, the rest is located in deep chanels cut in the frame) there simply isn't enough steel left in the frame to support the gun, when used with modern smokeless ammunition. Steel shot, as noted above, is pretty much out of the question, again, my opinion based on what I have seen. These are old guns, that are weak, and best for very limited use, in perfect conditions, with ammunition that is gentle to the gun. Like every single American sidelock design I am aware of, there isn't much wood left in the head when the gun is all fitted up, and pushing the limits will destroy the head of the stock, as well. It is a clever little design, with rollers on the ends of the hammers and the cocking rods, and my 16 was simply a wand, that carried well, and did the job on grouse and pheasants here in the midwest when I did my part. You will have the only one at the range or in the field. Sometimes, with guns, the market gets it exactly right. If you understand why that is with a Tobin, you can likely keep one shooting for a long time.
Best, Ted
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 112 Likes: 3
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 112 Likes: 3 |
" You will have the only one at the range or in the field. "
I'm located 30 miles north of the old Woodstock factory so these guns are a bit common around these parts.
So then if 8000 psi = 562.46 kg. are the Kent Pure Gold cartridges are TOO hot for a pretty century Standard Grade No. 40 shotgun? Will these soon render it useless? Is it a safe queen I'm cradling?
I'm not about to start loading BH409 for a 12 gauge I'd rather hunt my 20 gauge O/Us.
Last edited by Olgrouser; 03/07/16 01:21 AM.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,071
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,071 |
Kent gamebore 2 1/2" paper shells with felt wads are around 6500psi. That is not too hot.
Gamebore 12ga 2 1/2" Traditional Paper SKU: G1225TG28 Gamebore 12ga Traditional Paper, box of 25 rns, case of 10 boxes, (1oz - 1295 fps - 6526 psi)
Gamebore 12ga-2 1/2" Pure Gold SKU: G1225PGF28 GameBore 2 1/2"-12ga-1oz, for English & American doubles, 1oz - 1295 fps - 7832 psi.
Last edited by gunsaholic; 03/06/16 10:13 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 112 Likes: 3
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 112 Likes: 3 |
Alas another pretty one goes down the road. My Pure Gold cartridges are too hot and the guns condition is too good to mess.
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,071
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,071 |
Why do you insist the pure gold are too hot when I've shown you the pressures plus I have used them in mine with no problems. You plan on shooting thousands of rounds.
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