doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Ugartechea?

Kyrie, is that a pm about your new book about the Spanish gun industry that we've been waiting for to supplement Terry Wieland's previous work?

I had a Spanish sidelock built by AMR that was a real treasure. Light and well balanced.

But, who the heck has ever heard of AMR?

Ah! A. Marcos Relea (and his successor, Anchu S.L. Avancargas).

Seriously, your experience doesn�t surprise me. Here�s the thing about Spanish shotguns:

All of the makers, at any given point in time, and at any given price point, produced pretty much the same gun.

The only differences were stylistic. Within the context of time and price point it really doesn�t matter what name is on the gun, the quality (defined within the context of this statement as the number of skilled man hours in the gun) of the guns are all pretty much the same. No maker produced better guns than any other maker.

A lack of awareness of that basic business fact, and a propensity to compare guns from different price points and or different Spanish gun making eras, have contributed to the misapprehension that any one maker produced higher quality guns than any other maker.

Here is a classic example of how that worked:

Armas Ego, 1980s gun, top of the line, cannot be done today because it would have to sell at too high a price point to have much of a market:
http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100626930

Same gun as above, sane era, but made by Arrieta:
http://www.gunsinternational.com/guns-fo...un_id=100632573

That, and similar, deep relief game scene engraving was common on top end price point guns made during a now past era of Spanish gun making. Every maker in business during that era was prepared to deliver a gun with that or similar engraving, all at pretty much the same price point.

But the misapprehension that some makers simply did better work than other has, in turn, caused any number of people to buy a name rather than a gun, and end up spending a lot of money on a name rather than a gun.

But that also is a basic business fact, in the American market for Spanish guns. So it goes.

Thanks Kyrie for the education.

Some real Spanish sleepers out there if you know where to look.

If the name on the gun is a retailer is it possible like the British guns to find out who actually built that gun?

Usually. What I tell folks is when it comes to Spanish shotguns the name on the top of the barrels is advertising, and the manufacturing data is on the bottom of the barrels. Usual practice for a retailer selling guns made by someone else is to have the retailer's name on top of the barrels, but the true maker's mark on the barrel flats and water table.

I came across a good example of this back around 2011, when a Trust Eibarres with that deep relief game scene engraving shown above on the EGO and Arrieta came up for sale. Trust Eibarres was a retailer, and an examination of that gun's barrel flats and water table turned up the real maker: Pedro Arrizabalaga.

There are exceptions to that, and Astra (Unceta y Cia) is an example of such an exception. Astra produced box lock guns in-house, but bought side lock guns from other makers and sold those side locks under the Astra label. Unceta y Cia actually required those guns to be delivered without any reference to the true maker, and stamped them as if they had been made by Astra. So it's a rare day when we can attribute any Astra side lock to any specific maker.

Have 2 Uggies, a Grade 111 in 16 ga. 28" bbls IC & M and a 12 ga. Falcon 26" bbls. IC & M. Both very good SxSs. The Grade III just went to my son as I replaced it with a Dickenson that just felt better to me. It also has tubes, come see come sigh.

The issue with Falcons, for quite a few people, is that they were imported when everyone assumed that Americans preferred pistol grips and beavertails. Maybe the Jack O'Connor influence or something. But they're certainly good guns if you're OK with those features.