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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,096 |
Pete,
Thanks, that means a lot more coming from top quality contributors/researchers like you and Rev. I really admire the way that Rev leaves records (picuretrail) to be added to at any time. His data collection will probably outlive all of us.
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The reason I didn't post the Hiler patent (34961)is because his patent marks the beginning of decarburized/compressed steel shotgun barrels (1869)...it would be another 20 years before the industry really began to utilize this technology. More to follow...
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
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There seems to be several patents and many records of barrel makers in New York City in the mid to late 1800's. It must have been a sort of "hub" for barrels makers and iron workers.
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I don't know what to say exacly so again I'll just blurt it out...3 years ago, at this website, I would have been tarred, feathered, and run out of town on a rail for suggesting that not all damascus guns have samurai barrels (in fact relatively few)...but now that the age of ignorance has passed, I have become a fisherman of sorts. I'll explain,...for example...now that Ethan Allen's patent has been posted, I'm waiting for someone to come forward with an early Allen shotgun, where there can be no doubt that it is actually American made damascus....especially if the barrels are dovetailed together completely down the barrel...The other maker to watch for American damascus is Wesson, I suspect his barrels were sometimes American made but I have no evidence yet. Once we learn how to recognize Allen damascus, hopefully we will be able to recognize it if it appears on other guns...thanks again...Bob Chambers
Last edited by Robert Chambers; 06/05/07 02:42 PM.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 1,096 |
Pete,
If your interested in the demise of damascus, you may want to read 1005115 (1911)...it was issued to Franz Hatlanek of Kladno Austria...Kladno is also the home of Poldi steel including "anti-corro steel" but I have not yet connected Hatlanek and Poldi except for proximity and trade. At the very least, they where competitors if not associates. My guess is that Hatlanek was an employee at/for Poldi. I'm assuming Poldi is also someones last name and not just the name of that large Austro-Hungarian steel producer located in Kladno.
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also the exclusive horse shoe nail period was 1800 - 1825, after that there were more variations to choose
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true hand hammered damascus (stub/twist/skelp/mingled), like Rigby damascus (Dublin), became economically unfeasable in the percussion era. If someone thinks they have a hammered damascus gun, it had better be percussion or a converted percussion (like Barber & Lefever)...past that, you better have documentation that shows that maker (or makers supplier) was still hammering so late. The only breech loading exceptions that I have seen had high relief Rigby damascus recievers and rolled damascus barrels. Both were Irish guns.
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True Damascus steel (capital D) better known as "wootz" actually originated in Kurdistan. At least that seems to be the general consensus. Perhaps Rev already stated that, and I'm re-hashing old ground.
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Does this BBS have a spell checker?
Last edited by Robert Chambers; 06/05/07 10:51 AM.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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HJ,
I think Bob is referring to the very early breechloading Ethan Allen shotguns(which I dont have an example of yet) that had a hinged breech cover that opened to the side and used the triggerguard (I think) like a lever to extract the cartridges.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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RC - excellent research - keep going!! For sure I enjoy hearing what you find out.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
Reb I knew the gun wasn't in the time frame...I just posted it because of the Damascus pattern.
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Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 313 |
This is a c. 1870 Ethan Allen-sure would be nice to know if this is British Laminated or 'home' made 
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 6,271 Likes: 201 |
I have two, and have had several other Ethan Allen trapdoor shotguns. Their Damascus varied by grade. In 1869 they offered Fine Stub Twist on their $100 gun, and Fine Laminated on their $150 gun. A special gun, not serial numbered , was made for G.H. Coates, the foreman of the Allen factory. It's barrels are marked Finest Laminated. These guns are interesting in that the bottom half of the breech of the gun, approximately 2 1/2" wide x 3" long x 1" deep, appears to be made from the same piece of "steel" as the barrels.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
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The Allen in Hopkins & Allen was Charles H. Allen. Hopkins & Allen was formed in 1868 in Norwich, Conn.
Ethan Allen was from Massachusetts. He was born in 1806 and died in 1871.
Firearm firms associated with Ethan Allen, from Wikipedia:
1831–1837: E. Allen (Grafton)
1837–1842: Allen & Thurber (Grafton)
1842–1847: Allen & Thurber (Norwich)
1847–1854: Allen & Thurber (Worcester)
1854–1856: Allen Thurber & Co (Worcester)
1856–1865: Allen & Wheelock (Worcester)
1865–1871: E. Allen & Company (Worcester)
Pete
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