doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Reinforcing Stereotypes, Failures & Anomalies

jOe, that was intended to be humorous sarcasm. Dewey was rather clear about what he meant.

Thank you Dewey for an insightful look at American double design.

Simplifying design, increasing robustness, while retaining the essentials of handling and ergonomics were never priorities of SXS designers and makers.

There are few SXS equivalents of the OU Brescia action, something simple and robust powered by coil springs. The Chapuis, Fabarm Classis, are two that come to mind, but they are discounted because they are not sidelock or boxlock.

And we still have ribs on doubles! Masochism seems to be involved in there somewhere.

Shotgunlover, The Manufrance Ideal is coil spring powered,robust, and is quite simple in comparison to several of the American guns discussed here, but it may qualify as an "anomaly' as suggested by the title, at least in this country.

Duplicate post....I'm an idiot!

WagonWillie, the Ideal may qualify as an anomaly in NA, but not in it's home market of France, where around 100,000 Ideals were made (and some unknown number of Ideal-Robusts as well as Ideals sold under other names, using the same action) over about 100 years. And, as you say, simple in design, extremely strong and coil spring powered.

No flash in the pan but a design tested over 100 years of production.

Canvasback,
Too bad that more Manufrance Ideals didn't make it to the USA. Lots of them still in France, but it's not easy to get them imported, unfortunately, as you and I have discussed.

Viva La France- Tourjours La Audace--por Les Chasseurs!!

WW I hear you!

Subconsciously, or due to manipulation, we accepted the English designs, the sidelock and the boxlock, as the standards in SXSs.

We forgot that these were developed for a static type of driven shooting, not active hunting, even though most of us will never shoot driven game. Thus we feel obliged to either look down on other designs or be apologetic if we happen to choose them. "It might not be a sidelock but it is X".

But some of us choose some designs precisely because they are NOT sidelocks. My next SXS, if I find one, will be a Robust Ideal. If for no other reason than the "I" sectioned rib which is the only rational rib design ever devised and secondly for the coil springs. I have been burned more than once by broken V springs and unstuck ribs.

To the best of my recollection since I bought my very first double barrel shotgun 61 years ago I have been "Burned" by exactly one mainspring failure & it was a coil. It didn't break but lost it's "Spring" so only one barrel would fire until it was replaced. I have had a couple of V top lever springs to break, but so far not a Main Spring.

On the same gun in two consecutive hunts I had a broken Southgate ejector spring and a main spring. The spring job was simple compared to the dismantling and those engraved indexed screws, no plain axles on this gun. Experiences like these tend to influence choices.

The local general spring maker can copy any coil or wire spring for a few Euros. V springs are a different story. I was lucky with the boxlock's plain Vs, well lucky insofar as it was not a sidelock.