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Originally Posted By: SKB
....you have forty or so guys in the "Freedom Caucus" and they pretty much gut the effectiveness the GOP....

....I would happy to see Congress function as it should again....

....So who are you pulling for now Craig seeing that the good Governor Walker has pulled out? I concede Rand Paul does not have a chance, but just who may pull out to the front of the pack remains a mystery to me.

My point Steve was and remains, Congress is doing their job. If the pres shows an inability to work with the opposing party, and compromise enough to enact bipartisan legislation, then the duty of congress is to apply checks and balances. My other point was and remains, we should look at how 'independent' we are, if we only buy the mantra from one side.

Honestly, right now, I think a crowded R field is a good thing. Hill, wasn't she a peach this morning, can only blame and attack a nameless, faceless, low approval rated congressional hit squad. Herself and her amazingly 'tolerant' media buddies have to keep guessing for now, rather than hammer on an anointed nominee.

Back to your freedom folks, com'on, forty out of several hundred. You think they're in charge. Why won't decent leadership throw them a few crumbs to keep 'em quiet. Nope, I don't see them as the lone renegades holding the country back.

To expand a bit, blk lives matter is nearly their own political party now. A handful of crude thugs that will disrupt any dem gathering of more than a dozen folks. Funny, dems aren't piss'in and cry'in about that handful ruining everything, but they appreciate the mantra that R's are just a bunch of useless squabblers, by the 'independents' of course. Back to hill, it should be a curiosity to independent thinkers that the black lives crew doesn't show up and pee on her march to the wh. I suppose that let's the 'loser' dem hopefuls say they went down swing'in, but out'a the way she ain't stop'in till she gets the prize.

I believe RyanF is wrong. The left accepts and welcomes attacks against itself to push the overall agenda along. Unions, universities and left wing cities/states all gladly budget in heavy monetary losses in lawsuits, so that they're directed by a court or their unilateral feelings to pc engineer society.

A quick question for you, is the benghazi and improper handling of state dept classified information investigations something that this Congress should be doing?

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Craig you are terribly, terribly confused if you think the Democratic party has swayed me towards voting for them. They have not. I will not be voting for a Democrat in 2016, nor will I support the fringe element of the GOP. If a moderate Republican gets nominated they will have my vote. A Ted Cruz type will not. Throwing the Freedom Boys a bone only gives them a bigger appetite. They are such idealists that they will never be happy with legislation that can actually pass. Numbers do matter and grand standing to make a point is useless. Checks and balances is exactly what they fail to understand over on the fringe of both parties. So back to my question, who are you backing that is actually electable? And what do you make of Paul Ryan? Are you ready to brand him another useless RINO who will be unable to unite the party? I think he could be a very good speaker if the Freedom Boys do not sabotage him like they did he predecessor. Paul Ryan understands the math behind legislation. Being able to get the needed votes and getting things passed far outranks taking a stand over on the fringe.


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Originally Posted By: craigd

I believe RyanF is wrong. The left accepts and welcomes attacks against itself to push the overall agenda along. Unions, universities and left wing cities/states all gladly budget in heavy monetary losses in lawsuits, so that they're directed by a court or their unilateral feelings to pc engineer society.



True enough when they totally control something but, Dems like winning the elections. They have a huge advantage in the presidential election frankly, they dont have to do much to win. But, the blue dog Dem went extinct under Os watch and Dems have been annihilated at the state level. They lost the blue collar vote (maybe forever). What agenda can they implement now? Os reduced to executive orders and the veto. No agenda is going to happen until the next election, freedom caucus, or not.

Maybe Monica Lewinskys ex-boyfriends wife will do better.

Last edited by RyanF; 10/22/15 07:39 PM.
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Originally Posted By: SKB
....I will not be voting for a Democrat in 2016....A Ted Cruz type will not....

....grand standing to make a point is useless....

....So back to my question, who are you backing that is actually electable? And what do you make of Paul Ryan? Are you ready to brand him another useless RINO who will be unable to unite the party? I think he could be a very good speaker if the Freedom Boys do not sabotage him like they did he predecessor. Paul Ryan understands the math behind legislation. Being able to get the needed votes and getting things passed far outranks taking a stand over on the fringe.

Steve, I'm hurt. You won't answer my question, but I'll endeavor to persevere.

If there's such a thing as a 'do nothing Congress', why grandstand and be a potential 'do nothing' voter. Not a revised position I might add, but one I've asked you about before. No, I don't discount grandstanding, it works every day of the week for dems when they come up short on substance. Speaking of 'do nothing' anythings, bo sent a military budget back to congress by way of veto today. His reasoning, it doesn't meet his vague concept of 'economic security', code for 'I want more pork in this thing for 'investing''.

I already answered your Ryan question, and sorry to sound like a broken record. If he can get 100% lockstep party support in the House, and bo vetos a bill, like my example above, will it be a 'do nothing congress' or a 'do nothing pres'.

This pres is on the extreme fringe of creative finance, and swings his pen around like it's some excaliber. But, like we've seen so often, 'independents' know this pres is always right and would never question why he obstructs the business of the nation.

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So it all comes back to BO? The R's would just be a big lovey dovey group if it were not for the evil Kenyan? I have said before I do not like BO and want him gone, replaced with a moderate Republican. That is not grand standing. I will not support the far fringe of either party. I explained my view regarding my vote to you before. You just do not like my answer. No Ted Cruz or Trump types for me. Apparently you still struggle to understand our political system. Today's veto was an example of the checks and balances our founders put in place. You may not like it but you have to be able to work within the political reality of it. That was my point earlier.....you need the votes to pass legislation.

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Durn Steve, I like your answers, but it wasn't about likes and dislikes.

If you really want to save the planet and fight injustice, how about a close up picture of that Gove lever on your converted rolling block muzzle loader? Is it still functional, maybe it extracts the cap?

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Originally Posted By: RyanF
Hold on. You are all wrong.

Republicans need leadership that can work with Obama, or so says the Media narrative. Republicans havent been this strong singe Woodrow Wilson, yet they cant seem to get anything done, or so says the conservative base.

No shit

Obamas has been exterminating democrats and electing republicans for 7 years. Again and again he marches congressional and state level Dems into the electoral machine guns. What kind of President puts his party in such a predicament? When a Presidents party suffers a mid-term election ass-whopping, any other prez gets the message and moderates. Not his guy.

He created the freedom caucus.

I dont know how Boehner or Ryan or anybody is supposed to work with Obama. A guy that will throw his own party to the wolves isnt a good faith negotiator. Hes at least as stubborn that the freedom caucus people.

If we want congress to play nice we need ditch the ideological purity and go back to the old system of corruption, vote trading, and backroom deals. But, that requires a President who cares about his party. This guy only cares about himself, and thats why he cant work with congress: Hes a giant [censored], and hes left the Dems in shambles. Nothing will change while O's around.

Hes going to do it again before hes out. Any day now, hell come out and say something to the effect that America has too many guns and not enough Muslims. He will sign some pointless executive orders to punish law abiding sportsmen. The only thing this will accomplish is it will hurt his party even more. People at Slate, Salon, and the HuffPo will praise him for it.

Before Os done he will probably sabotage Hillary.


This!


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So what is the ideal climate for earth ?

The climate 200 year ago ? 2,000 years ago ? 200,000 years ago ?

200,000,000 years ago ?


Mine's a tale that can't be told, my freedom I hold dear.


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"So what is the ideal climate for Earth?"

Don't know and don't care, but it sure was pleasant on the course today.

Golf Peace!



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Originally Posted By: King Brown
Let's see if my post was "designed to sway the uninformed." Your question: "Please explain to me how this gives Trudeau any more legitimacy than the left accorded Harper." First, to declare a personal interest, I didn't vote for Trudeau; never voted Liberal. I vote NDP and Conservative, this time NDP which came third.

Numbers rarely tell the whole story. Harper was a conservative aberration. He ruled, as distinguished conservative author and celebrity Conrad Black wrote, like a "sadistic Victorian schoolmaster." His government was "rotten," editorialized the conservative owners of the Globe and Mail, Canada's flagship newspaper. Sadistic and rotten isn't the traditional Conservative Party of Canada.

Two thirds of the country may be progressive while at least two thirds of the media is conservative-owned; most endorsed Harper's re-election. (Something for Americans to consider when they blame similar " mainstream media" for their election outcomes. )

Canada voted against Harper's culture-shift away from its moderate values. Canada ended Harper's right-wing experiment in political re-engineering. Atlantic Canada's four provinces didn't give him a seat; the Liberal tide rose for first time in decades across the entire country from Atlantic to Pacific to Arctic seas.

Trudeau's astonishing victory and legitimacy is more than win-some, lose-some. The population generally restored their idea of Canada as a big tent of moderate governance. Harper's skilful cultivation of the ethnic vote collapsed as "old stock" and newcomers recognized his negativity and mean-spiritednness.

I doubt Trudeau is beyond the pale of 60 per cent of voters, as you claim. "No one, even diehard Conservatives, doubted that Stephen Harper deserved to lose," wrote the Globe's conservative columnist Margaret Wente yesterday. My Conservative friends, all progressives whom Harper swiftly marginalized from the party, are smiling and celebrating with the rest of us. Canada won a big one.

You and I haven't experienced such magnanimity in our lifetimes. I haven't heard anyone blaming or vilifying the CPC. Harper said Canada would be unrecognizable when he was finished with it. Canada said no after nine years. Trudeau's win had greater legitimacy than Harper's coming to power on a promise of greater accountability. It conformed to our national character of moderation.

Where's my hypocrisy, James?



I am so pissed because I was almost finished typing a very long rebuttal and my computer shut down and I need to do it all over again. Piss me off!

First, how you personally voted has nothing to do with the hypocrisy I referred to. But you knew that.

Harper a conservative aberration? I think not. He is the product of a political movement, Reform, that swept 1/3 of our country and transformed the PC party of old into the CPC. That's no aberration. An aberration is much more the apparent dilettante scion of a wealthy family, who, because of his personal attractiveness and his last name, is vaulted into the big leagues without the normal proving that politics demands. THAT is an aberration. You knew that.

Conrad is reminiscing about his boarding school days, at our alma mater Trinity College School, when he uses terms like that. Harper's government rotten? Probably, at this point in time. Much like Chretien's, Mulroney's and Trudeau's after 10 years. It's not a function of Harper. It's a function of holding the levers of power for too long. Happens to them all regardless of which side of the aisle they come from. But you know that.

Media endorsements once every four years, a week before the election, are largely meaningless to the average voter. What is way more important, and influential, is the constant barrage of spin, both of the choice of story and the content, that happens every single day of the four years between elections. And the vast majority of reporters have a left leaning slant. That's just a fact. But again, you knew that.

Harper's right wing "experiment" hasn't been cut short. It's been accomplished! He reduced the power and size of the federal government, relative to our population and GDP, significantly by ceding or returning power to the provinces. That won't be able to be reversed by Trudeau. And it ends the real experiment....that one started by Trudeau Sr., gathering power to the federal level at the expense of our provinces, trying to change us from a "Confederation of Provinces" (Sound familiar King?) into a federal state ruled from Ottawa.

The Liberal tide?? Let see....the Liberals won all 30 Atlantic seats, about 40 out of Quebec from the 75 up for grabs, 80 in Ontario out of about 120. And only 20 out of 100 in Western Canada. That may be a breakthrough for his party since his father told westerners to "[censored] off" while prime minister but it's still not "sweeping the country". You knew all that.

Trudeau's victory is astonishing, I'll grant you that. He had to come from a long way back in the field. But he did it and should be congratulated for pulling it off. But the return of big tent politics? I don't think so. The hard core NDP continued to vote for the NDP, back at their historical 20% level. Jack Layton was the aberration. The CPC stayed steady with their real number of voters from the last election and scored a typical opposition percentage of 32%. The "big tent" continues to be the CPC for the time being, keeping a much more diverse and fractious group headed in the same voting direction than either of the other two parties. Harper's vote in no way "collapsed" with any segment. What happened is that 1.5 million more people voted in this election....and they voted Liberal. That's not a collapse of Harper's CPC. It's an astonishing increase for the Liberals. You knew that.

"You and I haven't experienced such magnanimity in our lifetimes." Huh? Have you read any of the on-line comments from average citizens in The Globe or The Star or even that bastion of Conservatism, The Post. The Harper/CPC/Western Canada bashing continues unabated.

As you know, I'm conservative and a supporter of the CPC, MUCH LIKE 32% OF VOTERS IN THIS MOST RECENT ELECTION!

Trudeau's stated platform DOES NOT CONFORM TO MY IDEA OF OUR NATIONAL CHARACTER OR ANY TYPE OF MODERATION.


King, please accept that your views are your views. They don't represent me. They were formed by you being part of the Laurentian axis of power in Canada. I have told you this many times. The West is different. Not an aberration... different! To describe our way of thinking as an aberration or to say our way of thinking means we are bad Canadians is so insulting and condescending you can't credit it. That, in a nutshell, is exactly WHY the West has a problem with the East. We have run out of patience for being schooled by the Eastern schoolmarms and scolds about what it means to be good Canadians.


The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
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