doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com 12 gauge inserts in a 10 gauge

Gents; Sorry to take up your time with this seeming silly question; but does anyone make a chamber insert that slips into a ten gauge, stepping down to a 12 gauge.
The reason I ask, is my experience has been the larger the bore, the nicer patterns seem to me to be. I was wondering what a 10 gauge stepped down to a 12 would be like.
Sam Ogle Lincoln, NE
samogle2001@yahoo.com

I have some Gaugemate 10-12 adaptors that worked very well. Unfortunately, Gaugemate no longer makes the model I have, though they do make a different model 10-12 adapter.

Steve

Thanks Steve; I will contact them.
I have shot light (7/8 ounce) loads in a 12 & they just do so well, I thought "I wonder what a 10 gauge shooting 7/8 ounce or 1 ounce would be like?" I realize the gun would be heavy, but it would be for targets; not hunting. (I have a 16 gauge Fox for that.)I shoot "light" loads in my 16 gauges, and a little bit light in my 28 gauge, although not too light.
(Think McIntosh, who said "A .410 is miserable little [censored] of a gun.")
Thanks again, I will contact Gaugemate.
Sam Ogle, Lincoln, NE samogle2001@yahoo.com

Thanks to the wonderful folks here, I have four 10-12 Gauge Mate Silvers.
They are wonderful for use in my old 10 gauge guns.
They are split down the side so the hulls fired in them do split but there are LOTS of AA hulls available for reloading.

I really enjoy using an Ithaca 10 gauge NID for doves

Mike

I used a 10-12 Gauge Mates in my 10b SB hammergun by that fine London gunmaker T BARCLAY & SON of Oxford Street. I kid you not, I came across it at auction and just had to have it! No doubt just a hardware store.
Anyway, with fibre wads, which I use exclusively, it was a damp squib. You could tell by the sound and recoil that it was not doing much and they just tickled the birds. I suspect too much blow-by and loss of pressure.
Experimenting with plastic wads improved it immensely but as I do not hunt with anything but fibre, it was a non starter.
Just my experience, others seem to have had better experiences.

Here�s a photo of the old �Silver� Gaugemates. If you can find a set, spread them a little wide so they fit tightly in the chamber. Grind a spot at the top of the split so that you can flick out the empty with your fingernail while the sleeve stays in the chamber (tip courtesy of HomelessjOe). I�ve found that Winchester AA�s work very well in them, some brands stick a little in the sleeve.



Steve

I've a bud who shoots a Damascus 10 SxS chamber sleeved to 12ga. He shoots sporty clays w/it using modern target loads. He had another prior to the current one. Has shot thousands of targets with them, zero issue.

When you stop to think about it, the .750 nominal bore dia. is the same as the older 12ga. Baker Big Bore bbls. that many people [mostly trap and flyer shooters] were fans of.

FWIW, I had a back bored 12ga. [to .745"] O/U some years ago w/very long forcing cones and could never get it to 'sound' right w/fiber wads. Had to use plastic wads & not all of those tried obturated/sealed all that well. Settled on a couple of plastic wads that never sounded 'punky'. That's speaking to reloads. I never had an issue w/any of the normal factory Winchester AA target loads sounding f'unny'. AA wads have comparatively deep skirts.

"Nominal" diameter for a 10 ga bore is .775". 11 gauge = .751"
This does not of course prove what any individual gun's bore will measure. No doubt with that very Loooong forcing cone you were getting a lot of gas blow-by using fiber wads. Guns built when fiber wads were the norm generally had short cones.

HI, Sam. Here is a little experiment you might care to conduct. Learn to use Shotgun Insights pattern analysis program. Load up some 3/4 oz 12 gauge loads. Shoot 10 patterns of said 12 bore and 10 patterns of 28 bore. Run analysis and see if a big difference in bore diameter actually does have an influence on pattern. Report here!! :-}

DDA

Sam, many people who can't shoot them well badmouth them. As Clint E. said, "A man's got to know his limitations".

SRH

If you can't shoot a shotgun, the .410 is an abomination. On the subject at hand, a 12 gauge shell shot in a .775 ten gauge bore should perform just fine, since many modern (and many antique) twelve gauge barrels are bored at .750 or better. I have not experienced any of these off sound reports in 12 gauge shells fired in Chambermates. On the other hand, I don't use any slow burning powders in 12 gauge target loads. Such loads, especially when fired in ten gauge bores, should be loaded with fast powders like Red Dot and 700X to keep the pressure and the sound up to specs. I hope my friend Sam benefits from my comments.

Haven't used a chamber insert in 10-12ga. I have used one ounce 10ga 2 7/8" handloads in a Diamond grade Lindner which was choked very tight. The one oz loads were powdering trap targets from the 27 yard line. I think the pattern must have had an extremely short shot string to get the really dramatic breaks at that range.

Thanks, Miller,

You are of course quite correct about the nominal bore dia. for the 11ga. That's basically what Baker played with. I should have been more pacific. Ha!

Also agree w/your assessment on the extra long forcing cones.
_ _ _

.410's are fun for shots inside 25~28 yards, provided you hit the target. Witnessed a number of pheasant taken over dogs a few years back by a young man of eleven shooting a 000 framed Parker .410 that was ordered by a friend's grandfather for his dad to learn to shoot with. 3" #6's in 2.5" chambers, FWIW. No one had ever given it a thot, JIC anyone here might ask. I've shot a few dove at stupid ranges w/a full choked model 42 and some other .410's, but I've patterned them as well and know what luck is. Perfect .410 scores at NSSA shoots could be counted on one hand in the early 60's, but they didn't have tubes or one piece plastic wads. Charlie Polton(sp?)was shooting basically 3/8oz. paper.410 loads when he set his skeet records. The ammo was mislabeled in them days.

edit: I think there were actually six perfect NSSA .410 scores on the books in 1960 or 1961, but I could be wrong.

I have been very happy with GaugeMate Gold adapters (10-12). Too bad if they don't make them any more. I am not sure their website is up-to-date, but I just took a look and there is a tab on custom sub-gauge adapters, which might be a possibility if the cost is not out of sight.

I'm not trying to hijack this thread but I believe this is along the same lines. Has anyone here ever had or seen a gun rechambered to a smaller gauge? I recently picked up a 10 gauge Smith and I want to convert it to a 12. Has anyone here had this done?

I have seen at least one gun that had been chamber sleeved. I think it was an L C Smith 12 sleeved to 20, and I recall that it seemed pretty heavy.

I have a 16 that was sleeved to 20 years ago. It was a light frame 16 and finished up a nice swinging heavy 20. Bigger drop in gauge probably not a good idea. I like it a lot but expensive conversion if done today. Better to buy a 12 than sleeve in most cases..

Or you can load 2 7/8 inch 1 1/8 oz and 1 oz light 10's that work very well. Perform like light 12"s. Not a lot of trouble once you get set up.

Boats

A bit Nit-Picky I know but to go to a smaller chamber one does have to chamber sleeve, one cannot "Re-Chamber" to a smaller size. Re-chambering will always remove metal, not add it.

I have been told that Jon Hosford has "chamber sleeved" some 14 gauge guns to shoot 16 gauge with a glued in and removable thin sleeve. I have not seen an example, but one sold on GI recently.

To keep the terms straight, my 16 to 20 was barrel and chamber sleeved the whole thing. Lugs and ribs original rest new. Ended up about 8 oz heavier than when it was a 16 from best that I can guess. 16 that was probably too light to swing good to a 20 that has a lot of barrel weight and swings very good. Not the gun for everybody though.

Boats

I have a fox 16 that I chamber sleeved to 20. Two paper shells were stored in the gun for three or four decades. Moisture caused them to swell and the chambers were deeply pitted to the point the barrels were ruined unless the chamber could be sleeved. I cleaned out all the pitting and was going to just sleeve it back to 16 but decided to go down to 20 for extra metal. Ok I also wanted those 30" full choke barrels. You get a hybrid. The gun is heavier than a real 30" 20 would be but those over size bore throw very nice patterns.

Briley does chamber sleeeving. But you don't get a gun that is either like one or the other gauge. Think of it this way. If you sleeve a heavy ten into a 12 you get a heavy 12. I tire of lugging ten pound guns fairly quickly. Now if your 16 is too light would it be better as a 20? Easy way to find out is shoot it with a pair of Browning 16/20 chamber inserts before converting it permanently. If you like it proceeds, if not you are only out 30-40 dollars and your gun is still original.

Wow! Thanks for all the input: I am impressed. I bought a set of 16 to 28 Gauge chamber inserts some years ago and use them in my Fox 16 Gauge, and they work fine.
I am just a "tinkerer" who likes to mess with ideas.
Corresponding with "Stan" from Jawja, I have decided to get a 30" .410 to try.
But.......I sure would like to find a pair of old 10 Gauge to 12 Gauge chambermates to try. "Skeettx" and "Rockdoc" have me panting to try it. I realize that RST shotshells makes nice, light 10 gauge shells, but then I couldn't "fiddle" with loads. And, I dearly love to try lighter loads.
Sam Ogle

ps; I emailed Chambermate after discussing this the first time, and they haven't responded.
Sam

I gave up on chamber mates and bought 10 GA to 12 GA inserts from little skeeters instead. I haven't tried them yet but they look serviceable.

I tried the same...been a month and nothing back yet.

Regarding ChamberMates, read - http://www.seminolegun.com/
IIRC they have been shut down for quite some time now - business dispute or divorce, not sure.
I have their chamber insert sets in 20, 28 and 410 for use in a host 12GA gun. Very useful gauge reducers, and I have used my 20GA set a lot - quite satisfactorily....just read and heed the instructions.
Hope they "come back", as I want their "16 to 28GA" set.

Unfortunately, GaugeMates is out of business also

Thank you for posting the update and the link.

I called GaugeMate today and a very nice lady answered the phone and we had a nice chat, they do have 10 of the 10 to 16 gauge left.


Call GaugeMate at 916-859-0882


Mike

This is what I did many years ago, before the companies discussed above were available. Used them to shoot clays, and 10ga bismuth loads when hunting waterfowl.

Klunkermeister(Russ Ruppel) gave me the idea and then had a thread about making them posted here. Archives don't back to that far, so I'll post up the pictures again. Actually kind of amazed that I still have the pictures hosted.

Mike, is the extractor able to catch the rim of the 12 gauge hull?

Joe,
If you look at this pic, you can see where I put down a 'bead' of soft solder. That was enough to catch the rim, but of course it eventually wore down.

Final solution was to solder a thin shim (IIRC .003") to that location. PITA to get it all together....

The shim didn't interfere with 10ga. Every so often a 12ga rim would slip over it, but still pull it enough to pull them out with my fingers. No big deal.

When the 10ga group came together and tested the loads, I started to shoot light 10ga loads almost exclusively. (It helped to find several thousand 10ga wads at a pawnshop in Montana.) I think I still have the tubes around here but haven't used them in years. Actually haven't shot the gun in over five years.