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#427366 - 11/22/15 08:19 PM Re: Damascuses traditional oil stock finish [Re: damascus]
Edh Offline
Sidelock

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 34
Loc: New York
And Damascus, don't let my results bother you. I'm under no stress or hurry. Half the fun of this is figuring it out, and seeing if I'm capable of doing it. Once it's done, and I know I can do it, I won't want to do it anymore. Thank you for helping me.

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#427390 - 11/23/15 07:14 AM Re: Damascuses traditional oil stock finish [Re: damascus]
damascus Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 870
Loc: Cheshire England
Hi all

Personally I am disappointed that what works on this side of the pond is not working on your side. Though my artist friend sent me an e-mail this morning with another piece of information. According to what he has found out, companies supplying ĎArtí quality Copal source there supplies from many different places around the world, and in consequence what you may buy today may not be the same as two years ago, let alone some thirty years ago!
Keith the mineral Talc is number 1 on Mohs scale of mineral hardness so the chances of it reducing the life of chequering tools is extremely slim. Infact it is sometimes used as a dry lubricant, so using it as a polishing medium would be rather tedious to get some sort of result I would have thought. I am guessing now but those Victorian craftsmen where no fools they did not use the standard fillers using Quarts or Chalk powder because of the wear it would inflict on expensive tools. And I still canít understand why rottenstone is recommended for use as a grain filler because it is a known abrasive, and why the use of Talc for that purpose has slipped in to obscurity, because it has so much going for it other than its extremely low price.

Ernie.
_________________________
The only lessons in my life I truly did learn from where the ones I paid for!

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#428019 - 11/30/15 09:12 AM Re: Damascuses traditional oil stock finish [Re: damascus]
Ken61 Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 03/24/13
Posts: 2862
Loc: Iowa
It works, eventually. I started soaking my Copal back in September. I ground mine first, then soaked in 150 proof Everclear. It is still soaking, having dissolved around 75% of the Copal. I keep it in a sunny window and shake it several times a day. I did make a double-batch, so that might explain the long soaking time. At this rate, it'll be ready in a month or so. It just takes time.

Regards
Ken
_________________________
I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.

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#428024 - 11/30/15 10:36 AM Re: Damascuses traditional oil stock finish [Re: damascus]
craigd Offline
Sidelock
**

Registered: 02/18/09
Posts: 6683
If I had to guess, it seems like a chemical reaction. If a rubbery glob formed, I'd think it might be mostly formed of some type or another of oil. I think the 'glob' is useless, maybe see if it will dissolve in something unrelated to the process like water.

I'd think there's an unintended ingredient in one or more of the components, maybe with a ph problem. How's that for a wag.

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#428594 - 12/06/15 08:53 AM Re: Damascuses traditional oil stock finish [Re: damascus]
Edh Offline
Sidelock

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 34
Loc: New York
Okay, here is an update. I made up another batch of the copal. got the nice, clear, yellowish liquid, decanted it off, let it sit until thickened. Then I mixed the turpentine with the linseed oil, and added it to the copal. A little thick, but seemed okay. Then mixed the japan dryer with the red oil, added that, and bingo! It turned to jell again. It even seems to separate the clear oil out. So, I'm thinking it's the japan dryer. Is there something else I can use instead? Or, could it be the red oil? It's one of the two. Thoughts?

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#428604 - 12/06/15 10:22 AM Re: Damascuses traditional oil stock finish [Re: damascus]
damascus Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 870
Loc: Cheshire England
Hi Edh

Progress!!!! firstly I donít think it is the red oil because it is the same as Linseed without the dryer, and the amount of Alkanet contamination I feel should not cause this problem. My first thought is not to put any dryers in the mix and see if there is a reaction, if there isnít it is down to the metallic dryers. And I sincerely hope it is the strength or make up of the dryers you have over on your side of the pond. Now with the quantities of the mix if you mixed up a batch without dryers in the oil the finish would still work but the drying times would be extended a little. My feeling is reduce the dryers to a minimum say by three quarters and see what happens.

Ernie
_________________________
The only lessons in my life I truly did learn from where the ones I paid for!

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#428611 - 12/06/15 11:48 AM Re: Damascuses traditional oil stock finish [Re: damascus]
Edh Offline
Sidelock

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 34
Loc: New York
I didn't think it was the red oil either, but had to throw it out there. I will mix up another batch of copal. Now, that was my next question. Does 2 weeks seem about right for the copal to be ready?
I dont mind longer drying times. I'm in no hurry. I think I'll leave the dryers out this time. I only used 5ml which didn't seem like much anyway.

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#428629 - 12/06/15 02:57 PM Re: Damascuses traditional oil stock finish [Re: damascus]
damascus Offline
Sidelock
***

Registered: 01/27/13
Posts: 870
Loc: Cheshire England
Edh
The timing of the copal is all dependent on the ambient temperature though two weeks is quicker than over here in this cold damp Island, it has taken three weeks to a month sometimes to fully dissolve.
Now on the subject of metallic dryers a small window opened in my now not so good memory shedding some light on the makeup of dryers and the removal of Lead salts and replacing them with Cobalt compounds. Over the last thirty years or so Lead has had rather a bad press being removed from all sorts of products, you never know!

Ernie
_________________________
The only lessons in my life I truly did learn from where the ones I paid for!

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#428640 - 12/06/15 04:32 PM Re: Damascuses traditional oil stock finish [Re: damascus]
Edh Offline
Sidelock

Registered: 12/27/12
Posts: 34
Loc: New York
The lead could be it. I'll leave the dryer out this next time and report in on how everything works. Already have a batch of copal started. I'm not positive on the 2 weeks. It was at least 2 weeks, and maybe a little more. The first time I did it, I think it took longer. I was a little surprised the second time around. Seemed quicker.

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