doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Browning A-5 FN

Geo. I am not an A-5 collector, nor even much of an aficionado. So far, all I have to go on is that "It's a Browning A-5, because I say so."
Is every auto loading shotgun sold today licensing the Benelli inertia driven system going to be sold as a Benelli in the future?

Would a customer walking into a gunshop when that particular shotgun was sitting in the rack have been told, "This is the new Browning autoloader"..? Or would it have been more like today, where the customer would have been told, "This is the new XXX, they license the action design from Benelli, and they are made in the same factory alongside the Benelli's."

I know it only matters to a subset of potential collectors, I'm just curious is all.

You got me there Zapper. I'll just have to respect your opinion in the spirit in which it is offered...Geo

George has anyone else seen or documented another gun with similar engraving? I think it is period but not likely factory engraving. Low serial number for sure. But I've never seen a Teutonic style engraved A5 like this one. I think it was bought and then engraved to suit the new owner. A after market upgrade engraved gun. Might find a known browning engravers mark to support a factory connection somewhere in the engraving But unsigned engraving will be hard pressed to prove factory linkage.

Condition is certain to discount final sale price. Think what that must have looked like a hundred bumps ago. If pristine it would interest ten times the buyers as it is I see an interesting early gun which generates as many questions as it answers and to some of us that is a bonus.

Jon, I've certainly never seen another like this one. I have seen one of the engraving patterns before. It is the one with 'rolling rabbit' and it was on a Browning product of some sort and there has been speculation that the hunter in the engraving is meant to portray John M. Browning himself.

Someone has suggested that FN outsourced all it's engraving until sometime in the 1920's. Same to be said for most of the English doubles we all love; does that make it 'aftermarket' or just part of the service for a special ordered gun?...Geo

I understand out source engraving. My question is there any way to prove this gun was engraved by or for browning? I think it was done afterwards. After it was sold to a hunter who wanted to dress up his new automatic like his old double gun. The scenes are classic ones which you can find on a number of well made Germanic doubles. I could see someone buying a plain A5, shooting it and then sending it out to have it engraved in Germany or Austria in the style that they did all good doubles. Perhaps he sent a eching of what he wanted directly to browning and they did it for him. Without documentation or another a5 done like this one I will think after not factory.

As to value it will be worth what ever the buyer decides he is willing to pay for it. True value is what he can sell it for when he tires of it and the second buyer pays for it. We will know then if the first guy paid too much like many of us tend to do when buying rare, seldom seen or just old guns as my wife calls them. Thanks for sharing an interesting gun.

Perfectly sound reasoning Jon. I do not require agreement from anyone with respect to my opinions. Who knows?...Geo

Original engraving or not I have no doubt that the question will be used to try to reduce any purchase price and that is just the nature of negotiation. Ten minutes at a bench grinder and the offending decoration is gone...Geo

I'll wag that the engraving has a bit of a Belgian Teutonic feel, and if it ended up in Germany, there wasn't a whole lot of time before the rumblings of war were on folks mind.

One thing for absolutely sure that I will say about the 'originality' of the engraving is, to quote former Georgia Governor Marvin Griffin: "Some of my friends feel this way about the issue and some of my friends feel that way about the issue, but you may depend upon me to always agree with my friends!"...Geo

Geo,

The key is not only did FN outsource their engraving, the did not have a Standard Engraving Pattern catalogued until the 1923 when they resumed importation to the US and catalogued Grades 1-4 and Engraving Patterns A,D, and F.

The "Book" on A5's by Vanderlinden and Shirley shows many engraving patterns and styles that were in the FN records and sales information.

The "Bands" that you believe you see is actually wood, as the finger groove of the earliest A5 did not extend to the end of the forearm. I would contend that the art used in the catalogue shown by Researcher is actually illustrations of 12 ga. guns.

I have not seen an example of a 16 ga. gun that has this type of forearm, by 1909 the finger groove extended through the end of the forearm on both 12's and 16's.

Will