doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com H Leue Berlin Double Rifle - Looking for More Info

Goodness...they are sort of dancing around both cartridges. Don't take my word as gospel and wait for others more familiar with both cartridges than me but I think it is the 9.3 X 74R. Case length and shoulder dia. seem to indicate that and the thickness of the chamber at the rear of the barrel seems to me to be fairly heavy for the 9.3 X 72R Sauer and more in line with what the X74R cartridge would be. The length of the neck seems to favor the X74R also. How do the neck length dimensions compare? All the info you provided was great. Thank you for taking the time.

Cartridges of the World cartridge illustrations
are life size. Put the chamber case near the picture.
9.3X74R is my bet.

L3n4rd, Come on over to the house and we will go to the range
and shoot up my factory ammo

Mike

Does the word "SAFE" on the Greener safety strike anyone as odd? Could this rifle have been intended for the British market? Could it possibly be chambered for the 400/360 2 3/4"?

I know that the two cartridges are similar enough that 400/360 cases can be formed from 9.3X74R brass.

This is a cartridge once loaded by DWM, so it muct have had some following in Germany. http://www.cartridgecollector.net/400360-nitro-express-2-%C2%BE

Good eye there xausa. Remember he(or his heirs & assigns) partnered with W.W. Greener for a time:


By the early 1890s he had joined forces with W.W. Greener


1907 Advert

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=302621

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

A little more info.
I measured the bore from the chambers cast the best I could after 2hr 6min.

Here are the 3 unmodified measurements:
.3555
.357
.350

The cerrosafe documentation says that measurements are +.0016 after 2 hours. I don't know if that mean's I need to add .0016 to the measurements or subtract it....



I'll get that neck length shortly, I can say it does look like it is longer than the snap cap though... I didn't even think to compare it to the loaded round duh!



I'll do a side by side comparison with cartridges of the world, I didn't realize they were 1:1. And that offer is a deal and a half! Next time I'm in Texas!



Interesting thoughts! I'll try to compare the numbers tonight or tomorrow.

A bit more info, I have noticed that the gun appears to cock on closing the action. I just had to test the triggers with the snap caps, I couldn't resist!

Additionally based on the sounds and a few snippets I have read here and there, I think the left barrel fires first from the front trigger and the right barrel second from the back trigger. Is this typical of German doubles/drillings? Would this be typical of an 'export' rifle?

A little more info.

This is a screen shot of presumably the original chamber cast done by the previous owner/his gun smith with the measurements; it was included in the documentation with the gun. It does closely match my findings and I would be willing to attribute the small variances between my measurements and his to my cheap calipers.



At any rate I will be looking over British cartridges to be sure.

According to the rifle gauge table found below, the bore measurements I have taken are squarely withing the 9.3 range. To me it is looking more and more like what Raimey mentioned; the guy who marked the gauge wasn't feeling very good Monday morning lol.

http://www.germanguns.com/tech.html

But the information gathering is yet to be concluded!

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=281525

Thread on 450/360 2 3/4"

M4 might have a Scherping DR in a similar chambering(450/360 Rigby(2 3/4"??))?

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Neck length dims from three unmodified measurements are:

.557
.556
.558

Between 24 and 96 hours later the cerrosafe documentation says the measurements should be +.0025 (the +96 hours number). Again, I'm not sure if I add or subtract that number from the raw measurements.

This matches almost exactly the measurement found from the original documentation.



I have compared the numbers from SKB's post in the link you provided and from 400/360 2.75" WR from Cartridges of the World 4th Edition 1980 and they are not as close as the x74 numbers in my opinion. In both sets of 400/360 the numbers are lower that what I measured. Picture included for comparison.



Comparing to 9.3x75r Nimrod measurements found below, I'm not so sure that is it other than the overall length.

http://www.germanguns.com/upload/showthread.php?655-T-amp-S-arrived-Chamber-cast

So I'm kind of at a loss. What's everyone's best guess? I'm still leaning towards x74. Does anyone have better 9.3x75r Nimrod measurements?

Thanks again to everyone!

The 400/350 measures .437" at the shoulder, according to my Handloaders' Manual of Cartridge Conversions and COTW. I submit that that measurement and the difference in length effectively rules out the 400/360.

The choice is not between 9.3x72R norm and 9.3x74R; but between 9.3x72R Sauer and Sohn and 9.3x74R.From the dimensions of the chamber casts, you can see the reason for the confusion. I believe the next step would be to fire a 9.3x74R in the shortest chamber, and then check to see if a 9.3(.365-.366") bullet will easily enter the neck of the fired case. If it does,then use 9.3x74R ammo, with confidence. If not, trim cases to 72mm and load as usual, with 9.3x74R dies. If it is the S&S version, it may require "short" bullets.Bullets longer than the 286gr RN would not stabilize in my rifle.
Mike