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Your belief is faith based as well, Ken, for the theory that man evolved from apes is just that, theory. Never been proven, never will be. Matter of fact, it seems to me that it takes MUCH more faith to believe what you do, than what I believe. I'm no more trying to impose my beliefs on you against your will than you are, by making the statement that you did about all of us having genes from apes.

Have a great Memorial Day, SRH

No Doublefan... what I found fault with was your notion, currently popular among Liberal Leftists who wish to exercise class warfare, that it is somehow wrong to be successful in the United States. Sorry you missed that little detail. I seriously believe that the multi-millionaire Mitt Romney would have done a far better job of running this country and managing foreign affairs than the current Golfer-in-Chief. Capitalism made this country great and Socialism is slowly bankrupting and destroying it.

This thread drifting into an Evolution vs. Creationism discussion provides a teachable point on the philosophy of Religious Statism.

Don't for a moment think that I'm somehow anti-creationism, or anti-Intelligent Design. Those beliefs are a traditional doctrine of established religions, and to believe in them is clearly a part that is covered in the Free Expression clause of the Constitution. It is obvious that post-Reformation Christian philosophy resulted in the concept of not only the Individual, but Individual Freedom and Equality as well. This is the real significance, and is the main reason Christianity is constantly under attack by the Religious Statists, as it directly resulted in the Constitution.

I've said many times that there is no "War on Religion" in America. What is happening is really a "War OF Religion" as the Religious Statists attack Christianity in order to replace the morality of Individual Freedom and Equality with that of Statist Religious Collectivism, which is indoctrinated using the Soviet social science of Psychopolitics. This is the blueprint of how to indoctrinate this faith-based, totalitarian religious belief into a previously free American Society.

The real issue of religions is their resulting Subjective Morality. Does it further the concept of Individual Freedom and Equality? Or, does it further Totalitarian, Collectivist beliefs that are obviously Unconstitutional?

The method used by the Statists has been to draw Christians into the Trap of debating Evolution vs. Creationism. There's plenty of evidence that Evolution occurs, especially in the context of modern genetics. Mitochondrial and Y chromosome DNA testing has been able to trace human evolution back to previous species of humans, not only to Neanderthals, but to earlier archaic species as well, as far back to the Erectines of over a million years ago. Carbon-14 dating is also used to date organic material, providing validation of age. If you choose not to believe this it is your choice, but it is Science. In contrast, Creationism is purely a faith-based belief. Before you creationists get all up in arms, consider my next point.

The Statists have used the unscientific topic of Creationism as the main attack on Christianity in order destroy belief in the Christian
concept of Individual Freedom and Equality. This is then replaced by their morality of Statist Collectivism, presented as Truth, but in reality another faith-based belief that is unconstitutional in nature.

Let me reiterate, it is a matter of the resulting morality of a religion that is the issue, not the specific doctrinal aspects of a it. People are free to believe what they want, as long as it is not sociopathically inflicted on others, which is exactly what religious statism does.

Okay, okay, Ken. You're good at labelling. Democracy, Christianity, constitutions and institutions are (and should be) constantly questioned and under attack while citizens engage in making rules of how they want to live.

How has Soviet political and social philosophy suborned the West's Christian ethology to the point of bringing America into its orbit of thinking, away from its "previously free American Society." And what do you mean by "free?

Doublefan, how you make sentences isn't a determinant of character. No one here has difficulty understanding the meaning of a post. What I don't understand is why some members engage in anti-social behaviour. That's ignorant.

There can be different ways to state or justify a position. I just didn't see Stan try to impose anything. Maybe just pointing out a tactic.

Are you figuring they were already human? How did they crawl out of the ooze. How does science explain and prove the Cambrian explosion.

King Brown, you obviously have the same inability to comprehend what I was actually telling Doublefan when he engaged in his anti-wealth class warfare rhetoric. You also apparently could not comprehend it when I explained it to him. Or is it your intent to twist my words once again? I am anti-social and unfriendly to anti-gunners and Liberal Left Socialists who support and defend anti-gunners. I guess that includes you in a big way. I wouldn't expect to see that change in the near future.

The real anti-social behavior here is the blatant dishonesty and hypocrisy from Liberal Leftists like you. Why don't you go drink some of your award winning wine which was actually made by someone else, and play in the little vinyard with your pretend pals JFK and Martin Luther King. Sorry Jackie, no girls allowed!

[quote=King Brown
How has Soviet political and social philosophy suborned the West's Christian ethology to the point of bringing America into its orbit of thinking, away from its "previously free American Society." And what do you mean by "free?

[/quote]

Sorry Comrade Sralin,

Your little stratagem won't work. I'm not going to rehash the entire Cold War. The "Second Childhood" affectation when you attempt to present yourself as entirely ignorant is too tiresome and pathetic. Go ahead and review my last couple of years of posts instead.

45 Communist Goals by Dr. Cleon Skousen (1958)

08
JAN
The following is a list of Current Communist Goals as revealed by Dr. Cleon Skousen in The Naked Communist, written in 1958 and read into the Congressional Record in 1963. Of the 45, I can provide specific examples to at least 40 of them. While they may be masqueraded under the guise of something other than communism, the final result is the same � the dissolution of the Constitutional Republic that is the foundation of the United States of America. It�s interesting that the Representative was a member of the Democratic Party, the very party that has been largely enveloped by those with Communist and Socialist beliefs. Let�s see where we are in 2013. As you read, keep in mind that this list was written in 1958.

Congressional Record�Appendix, pp. A34-A35
January 10, 1963

Current Communist Goals

EXTENSION OF REMARKS OF HON. A. S. HERLONG, JR., (D) OF FLORIDA

IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

Thursday, January 10, 1963

Mr. HERLONG. Mr. Speaker, Mrs. Patricia Nordman of De Land, Fla., is an ardent and articulate opponent of communism, and until recently published the De Land Courier, which she dedicated to the purpose of alerting the public to the dangers of communism in America.

At Mrs. Nordman�s request, I include in the RECORD, under unanimous consent, the following �Current Communist Goals,� which she identifies as an excerpt from �The Naked Communist,� by Cleon Skousen:

[From �The Naked Communist,� by Cleon Skousen]

CURRENT COMMUNIST GOALS

1. U.S. acceptance of coexistence as the only alternative to atomic war. (CHECK. Presidents (both parties) have routinely supported U.N. measures that subject our sovereign power to the U.N.)

2. U.S. willingness to capitulate in preference to engaging in atomic war. (CHECK. #44 has made a systematic effort to decrease the U.S. number of nuclear warheads while our enemies continue to grow theirs.)

3. Develop the illusion that total disarmament [by] the United States would be a demonstration of moral strength. (CHECK. #44 not only apologizes for our strengths, but works to undermine them in the name of moral strength.)

4. Permit free trade between all nations regardless of Communist affiliation and regardless of whether or not items could be used for war. (CHECK.)

5. Extension of long-term loans to Russia and Soviet satellites. (CHECK. Let�s understand this does not refer to satellites in the sky, but to governments supportive of Communist Russia�s agenda. Currently, these would be the governments who embrace totalitarian regimes.)

6. Provide American aid to all nations regardless of Communist domination. (CHECK. Currently this refers not only to Communist domination, but also to Radical Islamic domination, i.e. Al Qaeda, Taliban, Hamas, etc.)

7. Grant recognition of Red China. Admission of Red China to the U.N. (CHECK. 1971)

8. Set up East and West Germany as separate states in spite of Khrushchev�s promise in 1955 to settle the German question by free elections under supervision of the U.N. (CHECK. 1961 � remember, this list was written in 1958.)

9. Prolong the conferences to ban atomic tests because the United States has agreed to suspend tests as long as negotiations are in progress. (CHECK. Even in 2013 the conference is still going on.)

10. Allow all Soviet satellites individual representation in the U.N. (CHECK, what are now Belarus and Ukraine were Soviet satellites until gaining their independence in 1991.)

11. Promote the U.N. as the only hope for mankind. If its charter is rewritten, demand that it be set up as a one-world government with its own independent armed forces. (Some Communist leaders believe the world can be taken over as easily by the U.N. as by Moscow. Sometimes these two centers compete with each other as they are now doing in the Congo.) (CHECK. Agenda 21.)

12. Resist any attempt to outlaw the Communist Party. (CHECK � is it illegal? Nope, these days we are surrounded by mindless twits who think �Socialism is Cool�.)

13. Do away with all loyalty oaths. (CHECK. Note the continued degradation of The Pledge of Allegiance and the systematic removal from schools and community government events.)

14. Continue giving Russia access to the U.S. Patent Office. (CHECK. Not only does Russia have access, the entire world has access via the USPTO website.)

15. Capture one or both of the political parties in the United States. (CHECK. The Democratic Party ideals are largely communistic in nature. Whether or not they want to recognize or admit it.)

16. Use technical decisions of the courts to weaken basic American institutions by claiming their activities violate civil rights. (CHECK, CHECK, CHECK. Too many examples to list.)

17. Get control of the schools. Use them as transmission belts for socialism and current Communist propaganda. Soften the curriculum. Get control of teachers� associations. Put the party line in textbooks. (CHECK, and none are so insidious as the NEA.)

18. Gain control of all student newspapers. (CHECK. Control the schools, control their media.)

19. Use student riots to foment public protests against programs or organizations which are under Communist attack.

20. Infiltrate the press. Get control of book-review assignments, editorial writing, policymaking positions. (CHECK, CHECK, CHECK. Too many to list, but the December 30, 2012 Op-Ed favoring dumping The Constitution is a good example.)

21. Gain control of key positions in radio, TV, and motion pictures. (CHECK, CHECK, CHECK.)

22. Continue discrediting American culture by degrading all forms of artistic expression. An American Communist cell was told to �eliminate all good sculpture from parks and buildings, substitute shapeless, awkward and meaningless forms.� (CHECK. Look around. How many sculptures do you look at and ask, what the heck is that supposed to be?)

23. Control art critics and directors of art museums. �Our plan is to promote ugliness, repulsive, meaningless art.� (CHECK. Jesus on the Cross in urine, Mary surrounded by multiple buttocks with elephant dung, etc. all praised as �art�. I won�t give the artists the dignity of mentioning their names.)

24. Eliminate all laws governing obscenity by calling them �censorship� and a violation of free speech and free press. (CHECK. Many of us remember George Carlin�s Seven Forbidden Words. While all of them can now be heard on cable channels, most of them can be heard on even network television.)

25. Break down cultural standards of morality by promoting pornography and obscenity in books, magazines, motion pictures, radio, and TV. (CHECK. In 1953, the word �pregnant� could not be said on the I Love Lucy Show. We can all name shows where married couples had twin beds. Now, anything goes and what is on even network television used to be referred to as pornography.)

26. Present homosexuality, degeneracy and promiscuity as �normal, natural, healthy.� (CHECK, CHECK, CHECK. The point here? Undermine the family unit and weaken the community by creating single parent homes and non-reproductive couples. However, as many same-sex couples do have the desire to have children, this aspect of the mission has failed to a degree. The irony is that most �isms� consider homosexuality as offensive, however, as with anything else, it provides a means to their ends and the homosexual population are too eager to join the cause without knowing the history behind the �acceptance�. )

27. Infiltrate the churches and replace revealed religion with �social� religion. Discredit the Bible and emphasize the need for intellectual maturity which does not need a �religious crutch.� (CHECK, CHECK, CHECK.)

28. Eliminate prayer or any phase of religious expression in the schools on the ground that it violates the principal of �separation of church and state.� (CHECK. The ACLU and atheist groups have made this their primary mission. And the ignorance of the American people and the courts have allowed it to continue. THERE IS NO SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE CLAUSE IN THE CONSTITUTION.)

29. Discredit the American Constitution by calling it inadequate, old-fashioned, out of step with modern needs, a hindrance to cooperation between nations on a worldwide basis. (CHECK. See #20. Even sadder, a few years ago, a dear friend of mine referred to The Constitution as �just a 200-year-old piece of paper�.)

30. Discredit the American Founding Fathers. Present them as selfish aristocrats who had no concern for the �common man.� (CHECK.)

31. Belittle all forms of American culture and discourage the teaching of American history on the ground that it was only a minor part of the �big picture.� Give more emphasis to Russian history since the Communists took over. (CHECK.)

32. Support any socialist movement to give centralized control over any part of the culture�education, social agencies, welfare programs, mental health clinics, etc. (CHECK. Wilson, FDR, LBJ, and the hits keep coming under #44�s regime.)

33. Eliminate all laws or procedures which interfere with the operation of the Communist apparatus. (In progress. The EPA and onslaught of Executive Orders are two of the strongest examples of completely bypassing the checks and balances created in the Constitution.)

34. Eliminate the House Committee on Un-American Activities. (CHECK. Renamed to Internal Security Committee in 1969 and eliminated in 1975. In 1959 Truman called it �the most un-American thing in the country today.�)

35. Discredit and eventually dismantle the FBI.

36. Infiltrate and gain control of more unions. (CHECK. We all remember SEIU President Andy Stearn�s Marxist tribute when he announced Workers of The World Unite.� Here�s #44 saying his presidency will be for the SEIU.)

37. Infiltrate and gain control of big business. (CHECK. If you can�t infiltrate, create your own. Think �Global Warming� and Green Energy.)

38. Transfer some of the powers of arrest from the police to social agencies. Treat all behavioral problems as psychiatric disorders which no one but psychiatrists can understand [or treat]. (CHECK to the 2nd statement. We all remember when it was widely accepted that some people are just plain mean. Now, the blame has to be shifted to some ethereal psychiatric disorder so that the person can be held harmless for their deeds.)

39. Dominate the psychiatric profession and use mental health laws as a means of gaining coercive control over those who oppose Communist goals.

40. Discredit the family as an institution. Encourage promiscuity and easy divorce. (CHECK. See 22-28. In 1950 there were 385,144 divorces. By 2009 that number has jumped to 2,318,615.)

41. Emphasize the need to raise children away from the negative influence of parents. Attribute prejudices, mental blocks and retarding of children to suppressive influence of parents. (CHECK. Rather than raising children away from parents, this was accomplished through removing parental guidance in the home and the promotion of ideas like freedom of expression, being your child�s best friend, removal of rules in the home by �training� parents that discipline was bad for their child�s self-esteem, etc.)

42. Create the impression that violence and insurrection are legitimate aspects of the American tradition; that students and special-interest groups should rise up and use [�]united force[�] to solve economic, political or social problems. (CHECK. Three words � Occupy Wall Street.)

43. Overthrow all colonial governments before native populations are ready for self-government. (CHECK. If not all, certainly several. Mau Mau Uprising anyone? Hmmm, what rings about the Mau Mau Uprising? Oh yes, it took place in Kenya, home of #44�s �father�.)

44. Internationalize the Panama Canal. (CHECK. In 1999 the U.S. handed the Panama Canal over to the corrupt government of Panama. Panama subsequently signed a 50-year lease for two ports at each end of the Canal with Hong Kong�s Hutchison Whampoa Company, run by Li Ka-shing, who is closely associated with the Beijing regime. This gave China�s Communist Party de facto control over the most strategic waterway in the West.)

45. Repeal the Connally reservation so the United States cannot prevent the World Court from seizing jurisdiction [over domestic problems. Give the World Court jurisdiction] over nations and individuals alike. (IN PROGRESS. In the following year, 1959, Hubert Humphrey introduced into the Senate S. Res. 94 to repeal the Connally Reservation. This was followed by H. Res. 267 was introduced in favor of Humphrey�s bill. While no official repeal is found in the Congressional records it is widely known that #44 and his supporters favor acquiescing to international law in U.S. cases.)