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Oh please, if one has $500 to spend I would look for older extractor guns from: Beretta, Sakaba or B.C. Miroku. Ejector gun or 20ga will bring few hundred more. The Sakaba 'Royal' is poor mans copy of W&S 700. English Webley 700 is better than inexpnisve Spanish double just like French Brie is better than one from great state of Wisconsin.
For <$500 something ugly, basic but long-lasting from GDR, USSR, Czechoslovakia, Yugoslavia or Hungary can be found.

PS. Another inexpensive bargain is double from well known sewing machine, chainsaw, lawn equipment maker from Sweden that has HVA monogram for name. Those were made of same steel as WWII german tanks and we know they made very good heavy tanks.

Larry,
You don't need a gunsmith to turn strikers for a disc set gun. You just need a guy with a lathe. I have access to a friends tool room lathe, and could make a set in an afternoon if he has a chunk of O1 laying around. I might not even harden them, depending on how much of a hurry I was in, and how big a chunk of steel he had, meaning I could make a few more, the right way, when I had time.

I posted the Spanish guns I thought were good enough deals, two Uggies floating around .5K. I realize there are higher grade Spanish guns, Seniors and Senatores and whatnot, but, that isn't what I have a Spanish gun for. Kyrie has a better grasp of the good, bad, and ugly from Spain, I just stick with my model 30. I would love to find a straight stocked model 30 in 16 gauge, with 28" barrels, but, it seems the cat is out of the bag on those, pricewise. As I already posted, a 700 is just a generic boxlock that people get more money for because it is English. If you need a generic boxlock, there really isn't a good reason to look at anything out of England. A lot of the stuff is beat to crap and they still want 2-2.5K for it. Ridiculous.


An SKB or an Uggy makes more sense. But, buying and using and accumulating doubles often isn't about sense, at the end of the day.

The only Spanish gun I've ever owned is the Uggy. No problems, yet. If I find a weakness or complaint, I'll post it right here.


If I had seen only one gun with a broken striker/tumbler, I might never think about it again. Now, I just know that there is a better, more economical, and easier to repair process that is used by most builders of boxlocks today. I don't believe anyone can make the argument that integral striker/tumblers are superior, in any way, to disc set strikers.

My opinion. But, not a bad one. You might think differently.

Best,
Ted

If one buys Japanese game gun no lathe or afternoon will be necessary at least until over 10,000 cartridges are fired.

Since the great majority of them out there are used, you might just be getting a gun that has been shot that much. Who knows?
Doesn't change the fact that my 8 year old can replace the strikers in the Uggy, and I have a spare set, ready to go.


Best,
Ted

So Ted . . . you don't like Darnes? You don't like any American-made doubles? No disc-set strikers on any of them. Do you know of lots of Darnes with broken strikers? How come you sold those inferior French guns for so long? Or is the disc-set striker thing a recent epiphany?

And you're talking about anecdotes, Ted. How many American guns do you know that have broken strikers? SKB's? Mirokus? Probably good to get opinions from gunsmiths, but I've never had a broken striker on either an SKB, a BSS, or a Daly/Miroku-marked sxs. Can't recall ever hearing any complaints from any people who own those guns. So you know of a case or two of a broken striker on a 700. Something on the order of 30,000 of them were made. (Compare that to a particular Spanish model with comparable bells and whistles--like ejectors--like the AyA 4/53.) And a bunch of them were exported to the States.

As for what's needed to make a new set of strikers, most of us are not lathe operators. And you want to make sure that they're of steel of the proper hardness. Heck, you could make one from a nail in a pinch . . . but I don't know how long it would last. And you get the length wrong, you have either pierced primers (a little too long) or dimpled primers and no boom (too short). If I were you, I'd swap that spare pair you're proud of and try them out with a few boxes of shells. Just to make sure everything is good to go.

Re your evaluation of Kyrie . . . take a look at his interpretation of "the good, the bad, and the ugly". He describes a gun with a 12 1/2" LOP as "very good". OK I guess, if you're a midget or want to add 2" or so worth of extension to the butt. Likewise a couple with busted stocks and very poor repairs. Likewise with a single trigger that's nowhere near as good as on guns like the SKB and the BSS. His evaluation of used Spanish "bargains" speaks volumes. Take a look at his list again. Read the descriptions. Tell me which of those guns you'd snap right up . . . if you didn't already have your Uggie, which you'd be very lucky to find again for much less than twice what you paid for it.

And if you think there are no complaints about Uggies, I'll offer you a challenge: Start a thread. There are enough of them around that you will get complaints. Just like there are enough W&S 700's around that you will hear complaints. You will also hear them about SKB and BSS . . . although given numbers of guns produced, when I did articles on those two makes and asked for comments, both good and bad, I did not get very many negatives.

I NEVER said there are no complaints about Uggies, Larry. In light of how many of them are out there, I think complaints about them are in the same class as complaints about Ruger Red Labels. You hear some.
Yes, there are a few duds.
The only US made double I've ever owned and used were a Western Arms and a Tobin. The Tobin has a pair of little strikers just like a Spanish guns. On my 16, one had been replaced. The Western Arms went down the road after about a season, nothing wrong except it had a single trigger I couldn't get my head wrapped around. I have no clue how a Western Arms gun is fired, but, whatever system they use is tough, and complaints about them not going boom are not common. I'm going to try a Nitro Special, soon, in 16 gauge, just to say I did, I guess, because I certainly don't need it. I have no idea which American guns use integral striker/hammers, but, American guns are usually pretty robust on the inside. Might be the price one pays for those lightweight English 700 guns.
A Darne uses a striker that is on the order of a Mauser striker, Larry. Quite robust, and, not comparable in any way to the discussion at hand. Never seen or heard about one breaking, here or in Europe. The component most broken on a Darne R is the main spring, and it usually breaks from a monkey using a tool on it. V Darnes break trigger return springs, five to ten minute job to repair, tops. You can use the side that isn't broken as a sample to bend up a new one, out of music wire. Neither of these Darne issues is one I have ever come across, it is what the factory told me to watch out for, and gave me spare parts for.
I still have the spare parts. Oh, and if the V breaks a trigger return spring, you can still use both barrels of the gun.
I don't recall this being a discussion about Darnes, however, Larry. Try to stay on topic.
Speaking of looking at the one that isn't broken, that is how one would come up with dimensions for a new striker, assuming one has access to a lathe. I've tested my spares for the Uggie, they work just fine, but, Cole Haugh supplied them. There really isn't much to them Larry, they would be simple to produce. I don't believe a nail would actually work, Larry. In any gun. Try it on one of your guns, and let us know.
Kyrie's list had a bunch of different guns that weren't Uggies on it, Larry. The only Spanish guns I look at, in passing, or with cash in hand, are/were Uggies. I have no desire to become fluent in Spanish gun makers outside of Ugartechea, and no further with them then the basic model 30 and similar guns. I think I said that already. I pointed out two gunbroker Uggie listings, one with a bid at $550, one at $600. Close enough to what I paid for mine, certainly not double in price.
The guns I'm talking about here are just generic, using grade boxlocks, and that is the only perspective I have on Spanish guns, Larry. My gun, and a few very similar to it, are the only experience I have with anything Spanish. I haven't had to ask, but, just about anything that ever broke inside of it would likely be something Cole Haugh has hanging around his shop. For my "canoe gun" there is a lot to like about that.

Best,
Ted

I thought the topic was Spanish guns, Ted . . . but we're also talking about the W&S 700, which ain't Spanish. Which seems to broaden the topic somewhat. But then you seem to want to limit it to Uggies. Which way would you like to go?

I don't hang around those auction sites much, Ted. Maybe you don't either. But neither of those guns has actually SOLD for the opening bid. And they carry additional costs of $35-40. So depending on what happens, they're quite likely to go for closer to $800 than they are to the $400 you paid for yours.

Good choice to have strikers made by Cole Haugh. Much better than Joe the local lathe man. You recall turn-around time on getting them?

I have no wish to become one of the world's leading Spanish gun experts, Ted. But you seem to be defending Kyrie's depth of knowledge and assessments of Spanish doubles . . . when what he posted in the way of used bargains consisted mostly of a small flock of turkeys. Under a blanket definition of "VG to new". Yikes. And we're still looking for solid evidence on those pre-WWI guns. And on 7-pin Arrieta 578's, from some guys who seem to know those guns pretty well.

But if I wanted a solid beater for not a lot of money, I'd consider an Uggie 30 too. Wouldn't consider a W&S 700. Too much money. However, if I wanted to hunt pheasants or prairie grouse, walking long distances, I'd likely vote for the lighter Brit gun. I've owned a couple 700's in the 6 1/4# range (28" barrels), good triggers, no function problems--other than the fact I did not shoot them all that well. I think most Uggies with the same specifications will likely weigh half a pound more on average.

Thank God. I thought the BS was going to go on forever.

So you don�t like SST and choke tubes. Many people do, and the BSA/ZH offer choices the W&S 700 doesn�t. The BSA/ZH is also $2,000 - $3000 less than the W&S 700. That makes your 700 the loser here.


I did. NIB in 2007, been shooting it ever since and not a single problem. I use Cyl/Skeet chokes on the skeet range, and switch to full/XF for trap doubles. Can you say that about your W&S 700? Didn�t think so.

I paid $600 for my BSA/ZH. Can you say that about your W&S 700? Didn�t think so.

Oh, and the $2,000 I didn�t spend on the W&S 700 � I used that money to buy this and have it restocked to my measure, with my wood:





Can you say that about your W&S 700? Didn�t think so.

Buy the name and get a W&S 700. Buy the gun and get much more.

I've had and do have a Brittany Classic. Pick your importer, BSA, Tristar, AA and yes even Weatherby, which BTW dropped the Zabala made SxS's they imported after a very short run. Weatherby dropped the Zabala's due to poor quality and they felt they did not live up to the Weatherby name. Oops, don't buy the name! The Brittany can in no way compare to a 700 or similar guns of any country. They are heavy, bulky, thick in the wrist, gritty trigger pulls, pressed checkering,have the swell at the end of the bbls due to the choke tubes, plain wood, cheap looking engraving and don't handle all that well. Do they work, sure, but to compare them to a 700 is laughable! BTW, I use my Zabala as a loaner/truck gun, that's about all it's good for.

I have a Purdey Best gun that was built in 1896 and a H&H Royal built in 1897 not to mention a J, Blanch made around 1880. They have been shooting all those years without fail, and I imagine have more rounds thru them than your 2007 Zabala. Can you say that your Zabala will still be shooting 120 years from now.......Don't think so!