doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Manhattan Arms Sauer Sidelock Question.

Anyone happen to know the specific Sauer model of this gun? I'm referring to the SD&G hammerless import with Damascus barrels made by Sauer. I've compared it to the Sauer Model 1900 sidelock VL&D imported as their early "Knockabout" gun (Pre-Francotte Boxlock) and the pin pattern doesn't match. It also looks like the Manhattan gun has cocking indicators, which the Model 1900 lacks.

It also looks like VL&D went to the Francotte at about the same time SD&G was selling the Manhattan. Anyone have pricing info to compare? Specifically for the the VL&D Model 1900, the later Francotte Boxlock, and the SD&G Manhattan Arms Sidelock?

Thanks
Ken

It is a transitional lock, a hybrid one might say. Let me search a bit for a thread.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

http://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthrea...true#Post320156

http://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthrea...true#Post282296

http://doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthrea...true#Post264947
Belgian version

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

My VL%D "Knockabout" which as I recall dates to the 1901/03 period does have cocking indicators. They are in the form of a raised ridge on the end of the tumbler axle. When fired the are in a horizontal position & when cocked they are at a slant.

Thanks, I pulled another pic of the 1900, I see'em now. No idea of the model of the SD&G gun?

Excellent. Thank you very much.

Regards
Ken

Raimey,

Do you think it was solely a cost issue in regards to the hybrid design? I find it interesting that the action is different, yet they are still marked Sauer. Is it possible that these actions were made (Sourced, in reality) by one of Daly's agents in Suhl (a "Rucksack Gunsmith", I can't remember the correct German spelling of the term) and then taken to Sauer for finishing? Possibly because H. Lindner was concentrating on Daly's HAL guns, yet Georg may have still been alive to shepherd the process? I figure Ernst was too young to have done it.

Regards
Ken

No, my thoughts are that the A&D Body Action was tied up for a time with ponying up for the APUN. So Sauer, etal did not want to pony up the funds and exhausted all other avenues to find a platform with which to hitch their gunmaking efforts. I think Sauer had about abandoned the transitional(inverted L configuration) lock and for a song Daly found a niche market to peddle it. I'll have to look at my examples, but as best I can recall, all transitional(inverted L configuration) examples have solely Sauer process marks. I do not believe that any of the Manhattan's passed under the quality control eye of H.A. Lindner

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Ok, let me see if I can get this straight. Sauer was producing the Hybrid design, and paying no royalties. It was less expensive to produce than their Model 1900 Sidelock action, (or their earlier sidelock action, the model number escapes me) which they transitioned to. Daly negotiated a cost-savings measure by having the guns made with the hybrid action since Sauer was already set up to produce it. Could this gun be considered an early sideplated boxlock? Or a true "transition" action? Sound reasonable? Makes sense about the HAL guns, as it looks like they were priced considerably higher than the Manhattan Arms ones.

Regards
Ken

I'd say you're close. Permit me to post a few lifted images from CAte's text pages 81 - 82(poor image capture by yours truly). If you don't have his text, get it. Daly was the American equivalent of AKAH, Genschow, etc. He had the pulse of the American Sportsman and knew what they could afford so he already knew what the retail price had to be. Not a sidelock but on face value appeared to be one. He was in it for the Benjamins. After Gales and Daly's son expired the heads couldn't manage a popsicle stand.





Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse