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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7 |
Jent,
I would heartily suggest that you address any questions regarding BATF regulations to the Washington Field Division at 202-927-8810. They will answer any question that you might pose and will likely be very courteous and happy to do so.
You don't even have to identify yourself if you don't want to do so (but they already know who you are, according to Alex Jones anyway).
Contrary to the opinions of some, the ATF is not "out to get you".
When I have a question or need clarification regarding regulations I call the ATF directly. You're far more likely to get the correct answers from them than from an internet forum.
Regarding the characterization of the BATF as a "rogue agency", I have to wonder how many of the people here have had their doors kicked in at 2AM by the ATF? Zero is the number that I'm guessing. How many FFL holders in full-time business regard the ATF as a danger to them? Or as the gun owners greatest enemy?
I'm pretty sure that the ATF wouldn't crack the top 5 "dangers to gun owners".
It seems to me that American gun owners are their own worst enemy. Here are a few examples, in no particular order:
1)Gun rags - It was Guns & Ammo that coined the phrases "assault rifle" and "assault pistol", thanks guys.
2)Youtube - Rednecks with guns and explosives, 'nuff said.
3)"Patriot preppers" - Make sure that you have guns buried, the end is near.
4)Open-carry zealots - This is a civilized, first-world country. If you want to carry your black rifle or AK everywhere you go, move to Angola.
5)"Militia" types - Paranoid much?
I'm willing to bet that I've had much more contact with the ATF than most of the people here and I've never experienced anything but courtesy and a helpful attitude from their personnel.
Obviously, being a large government agency that hires from across a large demographic, there are bound to be some bad apples, no different than anywhere else. So much anger, so little factual information. In my opinion the gun owners worst enemy are the Quisling gun owners who cooperate with he gun banners because those Yahoos don't like the same sort of proper guns that we oh so proper gentlemen treasure. How did that work out for the Brit and Aussies ? The BATfe has never benefited any honest gun owner that I have ever encountered in 45 years of being a fire arms enthusiast. Personally I was a victim along with approximately 200 other victims of a Gunsmith who had our property and deposits for up to 4 years, we reported our guns as stolen to the BATFe and and local Sheriffs department. The BATFe paid the Artist Gunsmith a visit and when they would deign to answer a phone call or email would simply say it wasn't their problem. But abbreviate a city name or street on a 4473 and they will be on you like white on rice. After all they are the geniuses that classified a shoe string as a machine gun, and told FFLs to sell guns to Mexican Drug Cartels. More people have been murdered with a 22lr or common shotgun, or even baseball bats than any 'black guns'.
Last edited by postoak; 04/14/15 09:45 PM.
Mine's a tale that can't be told, my freedom I hold dear.
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Dewey Vicknair
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Dewey Vicknair
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No anger at all.
Regarding your experience with the gunsmith, your guns were not stolen, you sent them to him. It was a business transaction that you got the bad end of, and that sucks, but it sounds like you're angry at them for not dropping everything to get your gun(s) returned to you.
If they paid him a visit and then said that it wasn't their problem, then all I can imagine is that your gun(s) were there, properly logged in, and thus not stolen.
I know, the ATF gun grabbers suck, until you need their help to make you whole.
You mention 45 years as a "firearms enthusiast", how many years as a dealer do you have, filling out 4473s?
I've been audited by the ATF and can assure you that a minor clerical error on a 4473 is not a reason to think about moving to a country without an extradition agreement.
I never said anything about black guns being used in crimes.
It appears that you use the term "Artist Gunsmith" in a derisive fashion. If the gunsmith you refer to is the one I'm thinking of, he truly was an artist.
Personally, I worry far more that the average IQ in America (as of Jan, 2015) is an appalling 98, than I do about gun bans and confiscation that are never going to happen.
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7 |
I am angry at the BATFe for caring less about stolen property than whether court is abbreviated CT or spelled out.
I am angry at the BATFe for scandals and dirty under handed tactics used against honest law abiding people.
I am angry at the BATFe for their inconsistent arbitrary rulings on what is lawful or not.
I am angry at the BATFe for their complicity in arming Mexican Drug gangs.
I am angry at the BATFe for taking advantage of mentally retarded individuals.
I held held a FFL between 1984 and 1992, and I passed my audits, I will estimate the BATFe Agents IQ is 30 percent under the average of this boards membership.
I am also angry at owners of fine guns that attack owners of other types of firearms that are not so fine. As well as 'black gun aficinados' that attack owners of fine guns as Fuds.
The two most recent directors of the BATFe Melson and B. Todd James or Jones have resigned under the cloud of scandal.
You can defend this bunch of nitwits, if you like.
And right now am am angry at the spell check on this Damn iPhone.
Last edited by postoak; 04/15/15 12:50 AM.
Mine's a tale that can't be told, my freedom I hold dear.
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7 |
If I asked you via certified letter to return my property to me, and visited you in person demanding that you return my property in the presence of a deputy sheriff and you refuse to do so, I believe you have stolen my property. The State AG had a similar view.
Last edited by postoak; 04/14/15 11:17 PM.
Mine's a tale that can't be told, my freedom I hold dear.
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Dewey Vicknair
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Dewey Vicknair
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I did not attack all owners of "black" rifles, just the ones who want to carry them into Starbucks to prove some kind of point and the tacti-cool, wanna be, youtube commandos that paint all gun owners in a bad light.
You do sound like an angry individual.
If you were that angry when dealing with the ATF, I can see where they might see fit to give you grief.
The way I see it is that they have their job to do and I have my business to run. So, if treating them with common courtesy, and being responded to in kind, gets the encounter finished with minimal friction, then we both win.
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7 |
Mine's a tale that can't be told, my freedom I hold dear.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,143 Likes: 202
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,143 Likes: 202 |
Just for our information, a sawed off (less than 18") pre 1899 shotgun is an illegal weapon, regardless of its age. So not all pre 1899 guns are "non guns".
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7 |
F Troop has got quite a mess on their hands currently with their decades long mistake with pistol gripped shotguns with a bore size of greater than 1/2 inch.
Under their rules and regs these weapons are destructive devices, but F Troop has approved their sale for decades. Now I know that pistol gripped shotguns are way outside the interest of this Forum, however the BATFe is desperately trying to extricate themselves from their FUBAR by reclassifying their definition of 'Sporting', which very well could impact the Firearms we discuss here.
Last edited by postoak; 04/17/15 04:05 PM.
Mine's a tale that can't be told, my freedom I hold dear.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,143 Likes: 202
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 14,143 Likes: 202 |
I have absolutely no idea what you are talking about.
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Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,618 Likes: 7 |
That isn't anything I can fix.
If the BATFe decides for example 8 Gauge Shotguns have no Sporting use, or Howdah pistols are destructive devices and are no longer importable who cares ?
I don't own any or want to.
Last edited by postoak; 04/17/15 04:46 PM.
Mine's a tale that can't be told, my freedom I hold dear.
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