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Forums10
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Apr 27th, 2024
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Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 5,021 |
"Read and enjoy Spanish Best, but dont take anything you may find in it as holy writ."
Yes sir and right when we had an author willing to dig into the Spanish shotgun, its history and its ridiculously complicated interwoven gun industry filled with its confusing names and family associations off he goes to write books about English guns.
That's just great. But we should be thankful we have at least one book on the Spanish shotgun and at least one point of reference that we didn't have before.
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 168 Likes: 57
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 168 Likes: 57 |
Tim, I certainly do not claim any expertise regarding Spanish guns. I only own one, well two if you count the AYA single shot I'm planning on making into a turkey buster. The other is the JJ Sarasqueta I mentioned earlier and which piqued my interest in the the Spanish guns at all. I'd sworn off Spanish guns years ago when I bought a .410 out of a barrel of them for $75 from Art Mickler's sporting goods store in Macon GA back in the 1960's.
You seem to have considerable knowledge of the subject so my memory is likely wrong, as usual. I'm pretty sure Victor did not commence business in his own name until after 1900 though. Can't cite sources because I probably "got it off the internet"...Geo Hi George, No, I'm not an Spanish gun expert on any level. I only just discovered Spanish guns in 2010 and like them. I do have a keen interest in history, and anything old though. I also like books which I tend to buy and read a lot. Anyway, do enjoy your Spanish guns, and good luck with them. Tim
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 168 Likes: 57
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 168 Likes: 57 |
Kyrie,
Where are you getting this information from? What are your source references?
Tim
Ive been a collector of Spanish firearms for over fifty years. My sources are various and include, in no particular order, the national arms industrial registry (1830 1940), a host of lesser books on and by the gun makers of Eibar and Barcelona, period newspaper articles and trade periodicals, biographies of the individuals involved, and decades of correspondence with people in or retired from the firearm business in Spain. Kyrie, I'm trying to establish where you got your statements from specific to Victor Sarasqueta, and when he started his gunmaking trade and business, etc.? Sources, references, etc. Apparently, Wieland interviewed Victor's grandson in 1989, Victor III Sarasqueta, and got his facts from the horses mouth so to speak. Tim
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Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,174
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,174 |
Kyrie,
Where are you getting this information from? What are your source references?
Tim
Ive been a collector of Spanish firearms for over fifty years. My sources are various and include, in no particular order, the national arms industrial registry (1830 1940), a host of lesser books on and by the gun makers of Eibar and Barcelona, period newspaper articles and trade periodicals, biographies of the individuals involved, and decades of correspondence with people in or retired from the firearm business in Spain. Kyrie, I'm trying to establish where you got your statements from specific to Victor Sarasqueta, and when he started his gunmaking trade and business, etc.? Sources, references, etc. Apparently, Wieland interviewed Victor's grandson in 1989, Victor III Sarasqueta, and got his facts from the horses mouth so to speak. Tim Tim, how dare you question kyrie and ask for references!!!! Oh yeah.. Don't hold your breath for them....
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Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,381 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 9,381 Likes: 1 |
He is true Spanish firearm expert and you're lucky to have him. High grade shotguns from Spain are fine firearms, but we all know that Spanish bath water tastes like bath water while English bathwater is single malt Scotch. I prefer Chopin or good bottle or French brandy.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105 |
Kyrie, you talk about a vibrant Spanish gun trade in the late 19th century. Fine and dandy. We talk about a vibrant British gun trade during the same period . . . and can point to thousands of guns from that period that are still seeing regular use, both in this country and the UK. Where, in contrast, are all the Spanish guns from that era? How many do you have in your collection? Can you show us any photos? Can you point to any of them currently listed in the inventories of any American firearms dealers? One more time, my question from several pages back: Where oh where have all those guns gone??? We don't even see very many from before WWII, let alone before WWI. If they're as good as you say they are, and as durable as British guns, then there ought to be at least dozens of them (talking pre-WWI) floating around somewhere . . . to compare to the thousands of British guns from the same period. Seems to me it does not speak well of their durability--if the Spanish really had such a flourishing trade back then, but all those guns seem to have gone missing in action.
I'll be at the Great Northern side by side shoot in about 2 1/2 months. There will be vintage British guns all over the place, being shot by dozens of competitors. (Ditto vintage American guns.) If someone at the shoot were to show me a Spanish gun from before WWII, that would be something of a surprise. From before WWI, it'd be the proverbial hen's tooth.
Last edited by L. Brown; 04/06/15 08:25 AM.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 15,456 Likes: 86 |
I've actually given thought to having a tube put in the left barrel, but, the gun works just fine, for birds, just the way it is.
Best,
Ted I thought you hunted with one of them fancy Mosse'turd pumps...
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,749 Likes: 744
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,749 Likes: 744 |
I've actually given thought to having a tube put in the left barrel, but, the gun works just fine, for birds, just the way it is.
Best,
Ted I thought you hunted with one of them fancy Mosse'turd pumps... Somedays I do. The federal WMA is steel shot only, and I prefer not to hand a double off to a warden if I get stopped. No different then you using your SBE. Best, Ted
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,703 Likes: 103
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 7,703 Likes: 103 |
You know, Victor Sarasqueta was born in 1864: <http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%ADctor_Sarasqueta_Suinaga>
If he opened his namesake gun business in 1883 he'd have been 19. I think it more likely that the 1883 date Wieland was given by the Sarasqueta family must have been the year he started in the business as his older brother's apprentice rather than when he started his own business. That just makes more sense...Geo
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Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 168 Likes: 57
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2013
Posts: 168 Likes: 57 |
You know, Victor Sarasqueta was born in 1864: <http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/V%C3%ADctor_Sarasqueta_Suinaga>
If he opened his namesake gun business in 1883 he'd have been 19. I think it more likely that the 1883 date Wieland was given by the Sarasqueta family must have been the year he started in the business as his older brother's apprentice rather than when he started his own business. That just makes more sense...Geo Hi George, I don't know either, that's why I asked Kyrie for the source of his info. I'm sure Wieland did his research. Wieland stated, " Victor Sarasqueta was a descendant of the Eibar brothers. He apprenticed as a gunsmith and in 1883, went into partnership (albeit briefly) with a Senor Cortabarria. Together they formed a company called Manufacturera Mecanica Eibarresa. When Sr. Cortabarria took his leave shortly afterward, the company name became Victor Sarasqueta, S.A. The original shop was in Eibar's Calle Grabadores, or Street of the Engravers, and from the beginning Victor Sarasqueta made all types of guns. The mainstay was side by side doubles, but he also built single shots and rifles." Spanish Best, by Terry Wieland, pg. 33. Anyway, I'm moving on. Tim
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