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Forums10
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,737 Likes: 181
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,737 Likes: 181 |
What's stamped on the toplever?
Kind Regards,
Raimey rse
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,524 Likes: 167
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,524 Likes: 167 |
Ted, did you get your question answered?? Mike
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,737 Likes: 181
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,737 Likes: 181 |
Odd that it does not have the proverbial stop???? And that's the 1918 example?
Kind Regards,
Raimey rse
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,524 Likes: 167
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,524 Likes: 167 |
Yes! It is! and yes it does, Just well hidden when closed Mike
Last edited by skeettx; 03/02/15 09:50 PM.
USAF RET 1971-95
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,711 Likes: 730
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,711 Likes: 730 |
Ted, did you get your question answered?? Mike
It was 'sorta rhetorical, Mike. The gun is missing any kind of grade marking, and combines features from at least three different patent Darne designs, and at least one trick (the tab to release the opening lever) completely unique to this individual gun. LeRoy Merz has a very similar gun listed on Guns International. Of course, there are no pictures of the flats of the barrels, or, the side of the gun where the intersting and different tab to remove the breech block would be. Is there a school that dealers go to to learn to take photos that provide little hard information about used guns? I wonder. Best, Ted
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
Interesting ACIER MANDRINE tube steel type. There's some patent info on the underside of the right tube.
Kind Regards,
Raimey rse Acier Mandrine- mandrel steel- turned on a lathe?
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 534
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 534 |
Was traveling in Europe for work, but I am back. A few comments, that could be improved with the pictures: - Fon Btee is I believe for Fabrication Brevetee. I.e the manufacturing process is (was) patented. - the barrels are from the 1900 time frame indeed. Poudre M was used until 1905 or so. The chamber marks are in cm (6,5) and not in mm (65). I am still struggling with the exact date of change but believe it to be in that same time frame. - "Mandrinage" refers to a test done by inserting a cone in a hole and looking for permanent expansion without cracking. You can google "mandrinage canon" for references on that subject. The technique was used for artillery tube testing and many other parts such as nuts and railcar hooks. In this context, it would mean that the steel used would have been tested accordingly. The other meanings of "mandrin" are "chuck" (machine tools) and tubes used to wrap paper or fabric on. A mandrin is also used for damascus barrel manufacturing IIRC. As for the orange, Larry, it is "mandarine".
I like that gun a lot. The "culasse" release is much nicer than the normal one. Too bad it's been damaged... Best regards, WC-
Last edited by WildCattle; 03/04/15 11:40 AM.
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Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,711 Likes: 730 |
WC, Hope you got to a warm part of Europe, anyway. Thanks for the info on the barrels. There are some clues as to the guns origin, but, I was hoping for clues that led us in the direction of what model the gun actually is. I'm not sure what you are referring to when you say you prefer this guns "release" as compared to the "normal" one-the "key", or, opening lever simply pulls up on a V grade, and the little tab at the back and bottom of the culasse on an R is almost invisible. The culasse on a P is not easily removable, and requires tools to do so. A quick review on taking down a V action Darne, for anyone who hasn't had their hand's on one this week: http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=356335&page=1I've never seen anything like it, however, and I wonder if an enterprising (and talented) gunsmith took a close look at an existing P grade gun and modified it to what we see here today? I can't think of a compelling reason to do that, but, that might not stop someone else. Darne grade guns were well sorted in the catalogs by 1900, another mystery. Thanks for the input, and, for keeping an eye on Larry. Best, Ted
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,372 Likes: 103
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,372 Likes: 103 |
- "Mandrinage" refers to a test done by inserting a cone in a hole and looking for permanent expansion without cracking. You can google "mandrinage canon" for references on that subject. The technique was used for artillery tube testing and many other parts such as nuts and railcar hooks. In this context, it would mean that the steel used would have been tested accordingly. The other meanings of "mandrin" are "chuck" (machine tools) and tubes used to wrap paper or fabric on. A mandrin is also used for damascus barrel manufacturing IIRC. As for the orange, Larry, it is "mandarine".
Seems we're overlooking the simple here, linguistically speaking. "Mandrine" follows "acier"--which is a masculine noun. If we're suggesting that "mandrine" is an adjective, that would be wrong. It would have to be "mandrin" to agree with "acier". Thus, my guess is that "mandrine", in this case, is a proper name--like "Acier Jacob Holtzer" on a Verney-Carron. Can't say I've ever seen "Acier Mandrine" before, but the French do use a wide variety of descriptive adjectives and proper nouns to identify barrel steel. Thanks for the correction on the orange thing, WC. That's why I put a smiley after it.
Last edited by L. Brown; 03/05/15 07:02 AM.
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,711 Likes: 730 |
Easy, Larry, we were just picking on an old man. We would do that, well, because we can. I think my wife's little Canon camera has some crud inside the lens. This is about the best I can get out of it for a view of the flats: The only thing I've got left to add is that it isn't uncommon to find pitted bores on old French guns, and this one, old as it is, has perfect, beautiful bores. More's the pity. Best, Ted
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