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8 members (earlyriser, Jimmy W, 78CJ, 3 invisible),
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Apr 27th, 2024
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105 |
No problem. Actually, the photos back on the first page are a little clearer. Don't know whether anyone will recognize "Mandrine" as a maker of barrel steel. However, it came to me, after looking again, that mandrine cannot possibly be an adjective modifying acier. That would be a mistake at the level of grade school French. Neither of my French dictionaries lists "mandrine", although both of them list "mandrin". I also found reference to an infamous French bandit, 18th century, named Mandrin in my Petit Larousse. Which reinforces my belief that there could just as easily be someone named Mandrine. Raimey might be the go-to guy on that one. But as I said, it can't have anything to do with the process by which the steel was made, unless someone made an incredibly basic mistake in adjective/noun agreement. It'd be like finding a reference in my V-C catalog to "acier tres fine" rather than the correct "acier tres fin".
Last edited by L. Brown; 03/05/15 11:34 AM.
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Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,533 Likes: 169
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jun 2008
Posts: 5,533 Likes: 169 |
Is this gun not a candidate for micro welding?
USAF RET 1971-95 ![[Linked Image from jpgbox.com]](http://www.jpgbox.com/jpg/57865_80x60.jpg)
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Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 534
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 534 |
Larry,
With all due respect, you are wrong on that one.
Here is a quote found in a google book. (and there were quite a few...)
"d'une plaque de metal prealablemcnt mandrinee de facon a former un cylindre".
Of course the accent is missing (eliminated by Google)as much as it is on the gun (capital letters normally don't have accents).
Dictionnaries are haphazard on old technical wordings. But this was an active technical word. It is not a Brand. It is an adjective and it is germane to barrel making to boot
So there.
Best regards,
WC-
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,749 Likes: 744
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,749 Likes: 744 |
Mike, I suppose anything is repairable. But, that being economically feasable is questionable in this case. This, is a telling picture:  Bubba has attempted to drive out the face plate of the breech, and has damaged it badly. The two pins visible in the top of the face plate are ejector pins, and one is free floating at this point in time-it should be under spring tension when the breech is open, to push a fired cartridge off the extractor hook. The firing pin for the right barrel is not retracting, in fact, it is stuck in the hole. The other firing pin won't break a piece of masking tape placed over my snap caps, when the trigger is pulled. I'm guessing that use with some sort of outsized load in punt gun fashion resulted in the fractures to the breech rails, and, Bubba, being Bubba, just worked them down with a file. None of this damage looks recent, by the way. There are better guns out there to begin a project with. I would advise anyone considering a Darne as a project to think twice about that. Unless, you live across the street from the factory. Best, Ted
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,785 Likes: 185
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,785 Likes: 185 |
I don't recall but is the stamp of SE over script M(on each tube a well as flats) a maker's mark or proofmark?   Kind Regards, Raimey rse
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Joined: Nov 2006
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Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 534 |
I really don't think it is a proof mark.
I have never seen that mark before.
The DD mark is now well recognizable.
Didier-Drevet was a famous barrel maker.
I don't know if Pierre Drevet who was the CEO of the Manufrance starting in 1945 was directly related on not.
Dider-Drevet was incorporated into Verney-Carron along Jean-Breuil in 1963 IIRC.
WC-
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Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,785 Likes: 185
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 10,785 Likes: 185 |
I think it to represent our culprit/mechanic/entity?? Not sure why he applied it was many times as he did? Any possibility @ all that SE is St. Etienne?
Kind Regards,
Raimey
rse
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 11,377 Likes: 105 |
Larry,
With all due respect, you are wrong on that one.
Here is a quote found in a google book. (and there were quite a few...)
"d'une plaque de metal prealablemcnt mandrinee de facon a former un cylindre".
Of course the accent is missing (eliminated by Google)as much as it is on the gun (capital letters normally don't have accents).
Dictionnaries are haphazard on old technical wordings. But this was an active technical word. It is not a Brand. It is an adjective and it is germane to barrel making to boot
So there.
Best regards,
WC- Good catch on the capital letters. But that's only a POSSIBLE solution. Might also be a brand . . . especially since I came up with someone named Mandrin. No way to tell for sure, with no accent to help us. Either way, have you ever seen it on a barrel before this example? I haven't . . . or can't recall if I did. A bit odd that the word, whether a brand or a technical term (actually a past participle used as an adjective, if that's what it is), doesn't seem to have been used all that often on barrels. Regards, Larry
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,749 Likes: 744
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 9,749 Likes: 744 |
Good Lord. The more I look, the worse it gets:  This is a view of the removed breech block, with the opening key closed. It shows the rising bite that engages an extension on the barrels, and it should NOT be a perfect half moon shape. It is, because a piece is rather neatly sheared off, in the exact shape as the extension on the barrels. The bite is making a bit of contact with the extension, as someone added a bit of braze to the bottom, to force it further up into the extension on the barrels. However, when the clever devil who did that little piece of re-engineering tried to fire the gun, I'm pretty sure he did this:  This view shows the mortised plate that is fitted into the lower action, which forms a perfect wedge when the action of a Darne is completely closed. It is just in front of the piece of steel with the hole in the center of it. However, the braze repair kept the action from closing all the way, and the stress of firing, either the first time it was fired, or, sometime after that, broke the plate right off. My friend bought this gun for $325, perhaps a decade ago, from someone who had fired it a few times, but, reported the breech was "loose" when the gun was fired. It was purchased as a wall hanger, and hasn't been fired since, Thank God. If you look at the front of the breech photo, you can just make out a crack starting at the corner of the rail the breech slides back and forth on. This view, of a later V model breech, shows what the rising bite is supposed to look like:  Be careful out there. Best, Ted
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
Good Lord. The more I look, the worse it gets: This is a view of the removed breech block, with the opening key closed. It shows the rising bite that engages an extension on the barrels, and it should NOT be a perfect half moon shape. It is, because a piece is rather neatly sheared off, in the exact shape as the extension on the barrels. The bite is making a bit of contact with the extension, as someone added a bit of braze to the bottom, to force it further up into the extension on the barrels. However, when the clever devil who did that little piece of re-engineering tried to fire the gun, I'm pretty sure he did this: This view shows the mortised plate that is fitted into the lower action, which forms a perfect wedge when the action of a Darne is completely closed. It is just in front of the piece of steel with the hole in the center of it. However, the braze repair kept the action from closing all the way, and the stress of firing, either the first time it was fired, or, sometime after that, broke the plate right off. My friend bought this gun for $325, perhaps a decade ago, from someone who had fired it a few times, but, reported the breech was "loose" when the gun was fired. It was purchased as a wall hanger, and hasn't been fired since, Thank God. If you look at the front of the breech photo, you can just make out a crack starting at the corner of the rail the breech slides back and forth on. This view, of a later V model breech, shows what the rising bite is supposed to look like: Be careful out there. Best, Ted I doubt, from a metallurgical standpoint, that we are looking at a "braze" on the rising bite-- the trace is the color of dirty mustard, not of brass/bronze with flux, and there is no indication of a HAZ (heat affected zone)- silver soldering at a somewhat lower temp, possibly no HAZ "footprint"- also, as a braze build-up to a sheared off section, would show grind and possibly file marks as the build up needs must be ground smooth to the surface of the parent piece of hardened steel. In looking at the French as metallurgists, one might care to remember that they developed the first successful Electric Arc melt steel furnace, around 1905-- and shortly thereafter, perfected the what we now know as AISI 6150 chrome vanadium alloy steel- and Henry Ford, following a visit to France in that era, introduced it to the American steelmaking industry- How good is 6150 Chrome-Vanadium alloy- Hunter Arms used it for the cocking rods and lifter lugs, how many of those in the great Baker cocking system used by Hunter Arms are known to have broken, one might ask??
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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