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L. Brown #395762 02/25/15 02:12 PM
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The general design of that Sear appears to be very much a copy of the earlier Dan Lefever design used on guns with the plate mounted sears.


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L. Brown #395765 02/25/15 02:33 PM
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Researcher, 2-piper, Larry; You guys are awesome......tons of knowledge. Thanks for the good info re the overhanging sear.


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Sorry for the late reply.

I have my early model Baltimore Arms disassembled for some repair and cleaning. I try to lay out the parts and take pics when I have projects apart. Here are some views of my A grade #1517.

The V spring at center is the top lever spring. The grooved pin w/coil spring just below the Frame is the top lever trip.




This pic shows the Cocking Arms on the Hammers and also the hanging sears, sear springs and sear pivot pin/screws.



The main springs, sitting on top in the pics, actually set below the hammers with the hooked end of one leg captured by the false bottom plate.




The false bottom plate slides into the frame from the rear and is retained by the demple at front center. Once the trigger plate is attached the false plate can not move. The trip coil spring sets over a small tab in the plate between the mainsprings.



Hope this has helped you understand the inner workings a bit better.

John

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Originally Posted By: Researcher
Baltimore Arms Co. -- January 1900 to October 1904 -- manufactured a gun designed primarily by Frank A. Hollenbeck, covered by his patent #643,601 granted Feb. 13, 1900.

There are three different variations of Baltimore Arms Company doubles, the 1900 Model which was available only in 12-gauge and grades A with twist barrels, B with Damascus barrels, and C with some engraving and a choice of Damascus or steel barrels. Half-pistol grips were standard and the Grade C had the option of straight.

For the 1902 Model they added 16-gauges to the line, repositioned the sear spring and strengthened the protrusions on the toes of the hammers engaged by the cocking slide on the barrel lug. The A-Grade (list price $33) got the option of steel barrels, the B-Grade (list price of $46.50) got some line engraving and a capped full pistol grip, and the C-grade got more game scene and less scroll engraving ("Either half pistol or straight grip.






Is that a restock? The shadow lines and checkering look modern.


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The stock on that C-Grade in the 32xx serial number range has a repaired crack and has been refinished. But, the C-Grade, Trap Gun and D-Grade all have the shodow line stock cheeks. Here is a much higher original condition C-Grade in the 22xx serial number range --





To date I only know of two Baltimore Arms Co. Trap Guns and they are consecutive serial numbers 1902 Models. The one pictured in McIntosh's Fox book pages 24 and 34 has a rather poor restock. Mine is also restocked, but at least the late Bill Harvey had most of the original to work from, and I still have the original.

Last edited by Researcher; 03/10/15 09:46 PM.
L. Brown #397080 03/10/15 09:36 PM
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That is not a re-stock, but rather the standard layered cheek treatment and checkering pattern given the Grade C Baltimore gun. The stock work and checkering work done to/on highest grade Baltimore Arms guns was superb; and especially so of the Grade D gun. As to the mechanical design of the gun itself, not being a great student of the Lefever gun I can't speak to how the Baltimore design might compare to a Dan Lefever design; but in my opinion, the Baltimore gun has more in common with Hollenbeck's earlier Syracuse gun design (those SAC models with George Horne's patented sliding cocking plate) that any other period gun I've seen. Both gun have the sears and hammer/cocking rod units mounted on pins in virtually the same locations on the frame, both have hammers powered by two large "V" springs held in place by a false bottom plate; and the cocking rods are controlled by a spring loaded sliding pin located in the barrel lug that activates/deactivates the moveable cocking plate whenever the fore iron is attached or removed from the gun as the case may be (1903 and later SAC guns have the sliding cocking plate, but for all I know, Horne got his idea for the SAC gun from Hollenbeck's Baltimore gun introduced in 1900). The biggest differences I see between these two designs is that the Baltimore features a standard 3/8" wide barrel lug, as opposed to SAC's 5/8" wide lug; and the top bolt bite. I've owned and/or handled, loved and studied every known grade and gauge of the SAC gun while I've owned only one example of the much rarer Baltimore gun (the Grade C referenced earlier). The Grade C Baltimore I own, in spite of it's chopped barrels, is a beautifully made and fitted gun; and certainly worthy of restoration (but I would surely love to own a Grade D Baltimore!).

Last edited by topgun; 03/10/15 09:37 PM.
L. Brown #397083 03/10/15 10:21 PM
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That's interesting. I'd only ever seen the shadow lines on 2-piece rifles, especially custom singleshots, when I stocked an up-custom Ithaca NID with them in the 1990's.

As time passed I came to see it as a stylistic mistake because they looked too modern.... now I learn they were factory original a century ago.


L. Brown #397084 03/10/15 11:14 PM
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You'll find very similar shadow-line treatment given to the cheeks of later vintage B, C, and D Grade Syracuse Arms Company stocks also; perhaps the stock makers for Syracuse and Baltimore Arms Companies trained under the same master? Who knows, but I'm constantly amazed at the artistry, skill, and creative carvings, checkering, and inlay work and designs found on America's best shotguns.

L. Brown #644172 03/15/24 09:40 PM
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The shame of all this talk of beautiful workmanship in old American doubles is that I fear it's going away. I have a small collection of Hollenbeck, Syracuse, Three Barrel and one Baltimore that I cherish. My children don't care and I've gone to great lengths to explain to them what exceptional talent and drive it took to make these beauties. They all say great dad, and go about their own lives, never asking about them again.
I have a friend who grew up in Hungary and took an apprenticeship as a tool/gunsmith guy at a very young age. He said one day he was handed a bunch of steel and given the chance to make his own tools...screw drivers, chisel's, knives, etc. Then he was taught the art of making "V" springs. He said, you have to know your colors perfectly when you heat the steel...to much of a color and it won't work, too little of a color it won't work. He said, if you do it right, the true test is to take the "V" spring, clamp it closed and leave it alone over night. If it functions properly in the morning, it's a good spring.That's artistry and it's going away.
Before I leave, I hope underfunded Frank Hollenbeck gets the recognition he deserves. He made some mighty fine doubles.

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L. Brown #646602 05/07/24 01:32 PM
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I know this thread is quite old, but the disassembled photos are still ere. How does one get the false bottom plate and/or the sears off in order to remove the stock? It slides in a groove but as it is moved rearward it contacts the stock. And it doesn't seem the stock can be lifted or angled away from the sears or springs protuding rearward into the stock head?

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