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Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,124 Likes: 195
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 1,124 Likes: 195 |
I have never had any need for Exhibition finishes on Damascus barrels but the favoured traditional final coatings used by wildfowlers here in the north west of England one was a mixture of Tallow in lard oil. But I prefer to use this keep the salt and water out mixture which is one part Paraffin Wax, part Bees Wax, with enough hot Paraffin (I think you folks call it kerosene) to make a paste. Apply thinly to warm barrels then let the barrels cool and buff with a soft cloth, you wont obtain a super high gloss but it is a fine working gun no frills water proof finish.
The only lessons in my life I truly did learn from where the ones I paid for!
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Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,343 Likes: 390
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 11,343 Likes: 390 |
Ken, I've thought about using automotive clearcoat on Damascus barrels, and even as a stock finish, but have talked myself out of it for various reasons even though I have several gallons of DuPont, Limco, Five Star, and Imron in my garage. No doubt it is tough stuff, especially after it catalyzes for several days. That becomes evident if you make the mistake of waiting a couple days before wet sanding and buffing. But it would still get microscopic scratches from hunting use. With a high build clearcoat on a vehicle, you could always buff it out with little fear of cutting through the clear, but I don't think a high build would be desirable on barrels. Any time I used less than 3 coats on a vehicle, I ended up regretting it. And it would be tough to have much build at all on edges of ribs, breeches, and muzzles, so I think it would become prone to peeling. Also, it would only complicate matters down the road if you had to re-blue a set for some reason. It would take strong chemical strippers to remove, especially in crevices as along the ribs, rib matting, lettering, etc.
I agree with Doug about the Eezox, or something similar. Even a good quality paste wax will bring out the contrast, provide some protection, and prevent the oxidation that would eventually create a patina. The Eezox would do it all as Doug says. It will protect the finish and the bores, and will also lubricate the extractor. Perfect example of the K.I.S.S. principle.
I have found that WD-40 will remove some of the oxidation on fresh slow rust blue or brown, so it is best avoided for some time after bluing or browning. But for the same reason, it works very well (with 0000 steel wool) when cleaning up barrels that have a nice even patina where you don't wish to refinish, but simply want to clean and improve the contrast.
At what point(s) are you using the ferrous sulphate bath? I assume you only use it for Twist and Damascus.
A true sign of mental illness is any gun owner who would vote for an Anti-Gunner like Joe Biden.
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Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,718 Likes: 479
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 7,718 Likes: 479 |
I have had good results using rotten stone to bring out the contrast then finishing with lacquer. I think there are a thousand ways to the job and what ever works for you works. I just find that lacquer is easy to do, drys fast and is easy to touch up if needed later.
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Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 312 Likes: 1
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2014
Posts: 312 Likes: 1 |
Thing is when you have damascus finished to that kind of quality I'd want to make an exhibition of them.
I'm currently using spray on acrylic, not exactly historically correct, but i like the shine it gives them, easy to apply, easy to remove if necessary, doesn't attract dirt. The buffed bees wax accumulated dust and grime towards the ribs which made the whole thing ugly. It would probably be a fine finish if i was using the gun every day and wiping it down with oil but for a wall hanger it was not good.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 1,737
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
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Oscar Gaddy..........Now that takes me back to another era, Doug. He was truly deserving of his "Dr" prefix, although he was so humble and unassuming he never made an issue of it, to my recollection.
Just look at those barrels! And he worked and finished SO MANY! Dr, doesn't do it, maybe "master" or "Guruji" would have been more suitable.
R.I.P., you are missed.
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Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 314
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2006
Posts: 9,417 Likes: 314 |
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Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,292
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2008
Posts: 2,292 |
An awful lot of what one uses depends on where he resides and how he hunts and uses his guns. What works in one geographical location might not work so well in another.
Hot temperatures and powerful UV in the Southwestern United States and parts of Africa will soften most of the traditional coatings very fast and you will end up carrying a gun with sticky or tacky barrels. Lacquer and other Polymers scratch real easy and usually lose their clarity shortly from solvents and oils/gun cleaning products, therefore end up looking worse than if the owner had left the barrels alone in the first place.
A large part of the coating effort, barrels and CCH, comes from the "Oh Wow" factor smiths have wanted when they hand the refinished product back to the customer (and factories who need to sell their products).........To me this is just like the coatings Used Car Lots use to clean up and shine the engine compartments on used cars......same reason and about the same longevity, but it sells cars.
I never spray or coat barrels or any CCH receivers, parts etc. with polymer products that will leave the surface in an obviously worn used cosmetic state after just a little use.
EEZOX is a great synthetic lubricant and solvent with good longivity and clarity. Pure carnuba wax is excellent for almost anything, but will dissolve when solvent is applied over it, as will all waxes.
This is just my opinion, your mileage will certainly vary.
Best,
Doug
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862 |
Ken, I've thought about using automotive clearcoat on Damascus barrels, and even as a stock finish, but have talked myself out of it for various reasons even though I have several gallons of DuPont, Limco, Five Star, and Imron in my garage. No doubt it is tough stuff, especially after it catalyzes for several days. That becomes evident if you make the mistake of waiting a couple days before wet sanding and buffing. But it would still get microscopic scratches from hunting use. With a high build clearcoat on a vehicle, you could always buff it out with little fear of cutting through the clear, but I don't think a high build would be desirable on barrels. Any time I used less than 3 coats on a vehicle, I ended up regretting it. And it would be tough to have much build at all on edges of ribs, breeches, and muzzles, so I think it would become prone to peeling. Also, it would only complicate matters down the road if you had to re-blue a set for some reason. It would take strong chemical strippers to remove, especially in crevices as along the ribs, rib matting, lettering, etc.
I agree with Doug about the Eezox, or something similar. Even a good quality paste wax will bring out the contrast, provide some protection, and prevent the oxidation that would eventually create a patina. The Eezox would do it all as Doug says. It will protect the finish and the bores, and will also lubricate the extractor. Perfect example of the K.I.S.S. principle.
I have found that WD-40 will remove some of the oxidation on fresh slow rust blue or brown, so it is best avoided for some time after bluing or browning. But for the same reason, it works very well (with 0000 steel wool) when cleaning up barrels that have a nice even patina where you don't wish to refinish, but simply want to clean and improve the contrast.
At what point(s) are you using the ferrous sulphate bath? I assume you only use it for Twist and Damascus. Keith, Good info on the Clearcoat, your knowledge eliminates that idea. Ferrous Sulphate comes after the logwood soak, as per Flanigan's tutorial on DocDrews site. Only on pattern-welded barrels.
Last edited by Ken61; 02/21/15 08:27 PM.
I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862 |
In a recent conversation with Dale Edmonds; he said he used Paste Wax. I asked him what he thought of Kiwi Neutral Shoe Wax, and he said he thought it would work just fine. I asked him if sunlight would effect the finish, to which he laughed and said it might in a hundred years.
Sam Ogle, Lincoln, NE Great info. I had never considered Kiwi Neutral, but had eliminated JPW because of it's tint. Sam, ever find your Spanish Sidelock?
Last edited by Ken61; 02/21/15 08:38 PM.
I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
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Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Mar 2013
Posts: 2,862 |
I have never had any need for Exhibition finishes on Damascus barrels but the favoured traditional final coatings used by wildfowlers here in the north west of England one was a mixture of Tallow in lard oil. But I prefer to use this keep the salt and water out mixture which is one part Paraffin Wax, part Bees Wax, with enough hot Paraffin (I think you folks call it kerosene) to make a paste. Apply thinly to warm barrels then let the barrels cool and buff with a soft cloth, you wont obtain a super high gloss but it is a fine working gun no frills water proof finish. Fascinating. Sounds like something that would be very relevant to DocDrew's "Big Bore" Punt Gun thread. Not to say it isn't to this one. Since I have all the ingredients, I think I'll mix some up and try it for fun. It reminds me of the "Greenland Wax" I put on my coats.
Last edited by Ken61; 02/21/15 08:44 PM.
I prefer wood to plastic, leather to nylon, waxed cotton to Gore-Tex, and split bamboo to graphite.
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