doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com What is this called?

Is there a name for the additional metal plate on the side panels? How often do you come across guns iwth this feature? Does it serve any purpose, or is it just for more engraving area?

Thanks

Alex

I don't know what it is called, but it sure beats the wood screw or carriage bolt we often see thru the head of a Parker Bros., Ansley H. Fox, Remington or Ithaca!!!

false side plate to add room for more engraving

'Dummy lock plate' or 'false lock plate'. Very common on Hellis boxlocks like this one, which is really just an 'ornamental side-plate' as it wouldn't fool anyone into thinking it were a lock plate for one second!

Guns bearing this adornment are usually referred to as sideplates, very common and found on most English boxlocks by the better makers in Birmingham and the provinces, used to showpiece the engravers art and to give the impression of a higher grade.Beretta and Guerini are doing it today.

It also goes a long way in keeping the wood from splitting a the head of the stock as so often found on some box locks

CJ

Whatever they're called, I put them in a different category than the standard sideplates you see on modern guns, which are larger and make more of an effort to look like a sidelock. No one could mistake this for a sidelock, and I don't much care for the technique (to the extent one can dislike anything about a nice old side-by-side). IMHO, the gun would look better without anything on the panels but oil finish. 100% scroll coverage on the frame just wasn't enough to say "fancy"? They must not have been too popular, as few makers followed the Hellis example. TT

Riffing on Two Triggers' post; the Hellis is interesting in that it's not a false sideplate, but desite it's honest design, it's unattractive.

But even the wood panels found on boxlocks are vestigal sidelocks. So when considering the stock design for a boxlock, I thought the boxlock should be true to itself, and not wish it was a sidelock with panels, or even more annoying; panels and drop points. But during the stock work, I found the panels a necessity for the graceful transition of shapes taking place between the stock head and the hand.

Obviously, some rounded action boxlocks don't have panels because the action helps with the transition.

Interesting, I didn't think that it would be called side plates because the two are unattached. The metal to metal fit is pretty bad.

The sideplates on Cogswell & Harrison's boxlocks (which, at least on some models, are "split" somewhat like the Hellis pictured--but more attractively, IMO) are referred to in C&H literature as "ornamental strengthening plates".

I like Larry's explination. They sure don't look anything like a sidelock.

The sideplates on my Cogswell and Harrison Avant Tout crossover twelve bore are fitted as closely as if they were Holland or Purdey sidelocks thank you, except that the screws and pins are not there. They are gracefully curved to the right around the crossover wood and nicely engraved in almost full coverage of medium scroll. The pictured gun is a Hellis embellishment that is not often found on the guns of any other maker. Everyone should be noted for something.

Are the plates Flush with the rest?
I thought some makers "Sunk" the plates into the wood..as in sunken sideplates.I've never seen one in the flesh, but I thought I saw one in a Boothroyd book that sure looked sunken in lower ...perhaps it was the angle of the pic though
Francottes did a lovely job of the sideplates though,eh?
cheers
Franc

It's a very handsome old gun. We went through the "sideplate/false-sideplate" discussion not long ago. IMO, they are correctly called sideplates. They really are sideplates, not "false" sideplates. False would be to call it a sidelock. I don't think they add anything to the gun pictured but it is a good looker nevertheless, I'd be proud to own.

I'd suggest that the plate would be likely called a bolster in this case. The size of the screw clearly removes it from a decorative function and puts it right there with a strengthening function.. Maybe a pigeon gun? I vote for that. Does it have a safety? Sure wouldn't be necessary for those puny Brit gamebird loads. Not in a Hellis at any rate.

Or maybe the stock split first.

WtS

You see those little plates on quite a few guns from Hellis. I think I've seen almost the same thing from at least one other Brit maker, although I can't remember which.

Some of the Coggies have conventional, one piece plates. Others have a visible "split" in them. But in either case, except for the "split", they look a lot more like a sidelock than what you see on the Hellis. But having "authentic"-looking plates isn't necessarily the mark of a high dollar gun. V. Bernardelli did some very nice ones on their Roma series guns, including false pins that really made them look like a sidelock.

With the advent of modern high tech glues and adhesives, it should be a cinch for me to make my Coggie into a "sidelock" by applying little domed metal circles to the sideplates.