doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com Mauser sporter serial number question

I have a JP Sauer mauser 98 Sporting Rifle from the 1930s.

On the right side of the receiver ring is a stamped serial number, and this same number is on the bottom of the Octagon/round Krupp barrel.
But there is also a different serial number on the bottom of the receiver behind the recoil lug. This second number or at least the last few digits of it are also found on the Bolt, shroud, safety and cocking piece. As would a numbers-matching military rifle.

What is odd is the location of that second serial number. Being on the bottom of the action. As most military action serial numbers are on the side of the receiver, at least visible with the stock on it.

I wonder, is the action maybe one originally built for Military use and then built into a sporter by Sauer. Or was the action maybe sold to Sauer by Oberndorf as a sporting action meant to be assembled by Sauer in their own way. But I thought Sauer was making their own actions as well.

Either way, the action had one number and then the second number was put on it when the rifle was finished.

I'm no expert but I believe the # under the receiver would indicate a commercial Oberndorf serial #, there should also be one on the back of the mag. box. Post this # and you'll be able to establish the date of mfg. of the action at least.
Sounds like a nice rifle - pics. would be nice & helpful.

I agree with John Can.s assessment.Are you sure of the 1930s date? After WW1,military actions were usually used.Maybe a 1930s rework of an earlier rifle. Jim Cate can help with the Sauer serial number.
Mike

I will get photos up when I get the chance.
The number on the bottom of receiver is 44597. This full number is also on the back of the mag box. Partials of this number are on the bolt, bolt shroud, safety, cocking piece, floor plate, trigger sear and the double set kickoff piece.

The finished serial number that is on the right side of the receiver ring is 182681. This full number is on the bottom of the barrel. Partials of this number are on the trigger guard assembly by triggers, floor plate and underside of lever floor plate release.

The follower is not marked.

As you can see, some parts are double stamped and some parts, like the trigger kickoff piece has the original receiver number suggesting the action was originally a sporting action.

I say 1930s due to the history of the rifle that I know. The rifle was originally owned by a U.S. Congressman from Minnesota. The stock has an oval inlaid in the toe line that has his name engraved in it. His grandson confirmed that him and his wife had vacationed to Europe every winter from 1930 to about 1937 for skiing. And after the war never really took any other trips to Europe. So he likely purchased the rifle on one of those trips.

The Mauser number places it likely in 1911,which is prewar and be before Military actions were widely used.You would have to ask someone else about the Sauer number, I'm not up on them and don't know if it would be ca 1911-12.Another "tell", since you mentioned the "kick off", is Mauser factory DSTs during this period were built into the trigger guard,whereas "after market" ones were a separate assembly, pinned into the trigger guard.
Mike

In looking through my Mauser book, which I am about half way through, there is a photo of a JP Sauser rifle that is captioned as being pre WWI, and it looks identical to mine in almost every feature. And yes, the One number does put it in 1911 Oberndorf production.

I have contacted the modern day Sauer company to see if maybe they have any records that might tell me anything. I am not hopful, but you never know.

That photo in the book shows a stock oval. So maybe that oval was a standard feature on Sauer Mausers of that era.

The gentleman who owned my rifle and has his name engraved in the oval very well may have purchased the rifle second hand in the 30s, in Europe and has his name engraved in the oval after the fact. Not purchased the rifle new.

Mr. Dudley - I'm just curious but is there any mark on the right side barrel flat between the receiver and rear sight? --- John

B.Dudly,
I think I know what John Can is curious about and it might be helpful if you examine the right side of the butt stock to see if it shows signs of any markings or where a plate may have been attached(4 filled screw holes).The modern S&S will not be able to help you, but Jim Cate can.BTW I think I forgot to mention, the reason Sauer had to buy mauser actions from Oberndorf is because Mauser's patents were still in force.
Mike

There are no alterations to the stock at all and there is nothing on the right side of the barrel. Above the wood at least. As I recall from the last time I had the action out of the wood, there is nothing below it either, except for proof markings on the bottom.

Taking barreled action out of stock for reasons other than sorely needed thorough cleaning is foolish and can lead to stock cracking from improperly torqued screws. I wish people stopped doing that.

It is sporting rifle made on not for K98 OMA. Let see some pics.

Sorry for the delay in getting photos of the subject rifle up.

Here they are.
Excuse the tall and unfinished front sight. The rifle originally had a Lyman 35 on it and it was gone when I got it. I found one and put it back on. Now I am working on getting the taller front sight that I made for it worked down to where it needs to be.

B. Dudley,
Now you really have my interest.I checked the whole thread it it was not said anywhere that the rifle was a 30-06.It is highly possible that the rifle was imported into the US, pre WW1.A couple hints at this are the markings 30.USA 1906, and Prussia."Prussia" was usually marked on guns for export(not just to US)but not so much for domestic use. Is there a name on the recoil pad?I am interested in this because I have an Oberndorf Mauser 30-06 ca 1912, with a homemade butt plate with a 13"length of pull.This seems that a recoil pad was installed, and I wondered what type pad would be contempory. Mine also has a Lyman 35 sight and I wondered if they were avaliable at the time; and here is another one from the same period.At least yours hasn't been drilled and tapped, as mine has. You have a very nice rifle.
Mike

Thanks for the kind words. The rifle is in good shape and the bore is pretty much perfect.
The name engraved on the stock oval is one of a US congressman from Minnesota. And he was also a member of the Pillsbury bakery family.
Like I said earlier, I tracked down his grandson and he said his grandfather vacationed to Europe a lot in the 1930s.

I had suspected he purchase it new at that time, but he could have bought it second hand and had his name engraved on the oval later on. Since it looks like the gun was built pre WW1.

The pad has a leather face and I have not wanted to damage it by trying to removing the pad.

The gun originally did not have the Lyman 35 on it when I bought it, but the wood was Inletted out for it, so I knew it was on there at one time. The rifle shot well with the leaf rear sight and front blade that was on it, but the rear leaf sight was so low that I could barely see it over the receiver ring.

That is a very fine rifle, I have one similar except in 8x57, action is a 1912 Oberndorff just like yours. You can see it here. > Nitroexpress site > Mauser Forum & Archive > bottom of the first page, I'm sure you'll pick it out.
Just out of curiosity - what is the "proper" torque for the action bolts on these / any other Mauser actioned rifles??
All take care. --- John

John,
A properly inlet Mauser could be considered "pillar bedded".Note the bushing visible in the stock,around the rear screw.The front of the magazine fits against the bottom of the reciever.The screws are then pulled up hard for firm contact and were often "clocked" so the slots were "fore and aft".Then when reassembled, the screw slots oreniented the same way.
Mike

Yes Mike, that is the way I've did mine for years, never had a problem yet. Just trying to get Jager to elaborate on his "torque" statement. I wouldn't want to miss anything and screw things up. --- John

This is a new to me Sauer in 8X57. I got a relatively good deal on it because the seller mistakenly advertised the bolt as a mismatch, having confused the Mauser serial numbers and the Sauer serial numbers.

Any ideas on a date? I have seen a dated list of Sauer serial numbers for shotguns and the rifle serial number (150591) may fall in the same sequence.

1909 146.301

1910 155.801

If so, the date is approx.1910

The stamp >>2,5gGBP<< equates to 2.5 grammes (Military)rifle flake powder points to the Standard Service Charge for the Semi smokeless 8x57 cartridge. >>StmG<< is the bullet type. As this mark was only used up to 1912, it probably indicates an I = .318" bullet bore. You will probably find the following proofmarks under the barrel: a big crown, a small crown over N indicating nitro proof using the 4000 ATM special proof powder, and the gauge number 172,28. Only if the gauge number is 156,14 it may be a S =.323" barrel.

If any of the of the bore gauges are present, it would date pre-1912.

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

That looks like the 4000 ATM stamp on the bolt handle?

Serbus,

Raimey
rse

Serbus,

Raimey
rse