doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Damascus explained

FINALLY found a high resolution close-up example of "Bernard" damascus on Keith Kearcher's website; recognizing that their are several 'quality' designations for "Bernard" and many makers

Rev, I sure would like to add to my American damascus/twist files if you have anything...I only have a few bits and peices and some of are for faux damascus...You don't have to answer if you don't want to, I am aware that American damascus and faux damascus were "off limits" subjects [here] in the past...we can exchange info privately if you think it may help to avoid a pissing match by angry readers..
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Did you happen to catch that episode of Globe Trekker (in Spain) were they claimed the history of damascus steel is interwoven with the history of flaminco (sp?) music and dance?

RC - didn't see that episode. Were they refering to the twisted laminate we refer to as damascus for gun barrels, or were they refering to actual Damascus blades made from Wootz. The two are different. I've never heard of Spain being a developer of laminate metal.

Robert: I suspect everything shown on the 'Damascus Barrels' PictureTrail is English or Belgian
http://www.picturetrail.com/gallery.fcgi?p=999&gid=16082038
and I only have one 'Faux damascus' pic (the last one)

Missed the Globe Trekker episode. Lots of stuff out there about damascus blade production (much less about gun barrels). The Moors controlled much of Iberia from 700-1200, and Grenada until 1492, and no doubt brought sword blade 'technology' with them. These folks claim the Flamenco came from Middle Eastern Dance http://www.middleeasterndance.net

according to the program that I saw...there is a valley in Spain were it is said that Flamenco music got it's start aganst the constant backdrop of ringing anvils that went 24 hrs a day on both sides of the valley.
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Twenty years ago I read where farriers across Europe saved the worn and headless horse shoe nails for re-use in the damascus steel process. It was theorized that the nails had enhanced grain properties due to the horses constant pounding on the cobblestones. These nais were then straightened, filed, and welded with a blacksmith weld, into long somewhat square rods. These rods where then filed, to open the grain, and bundled into packets, with ground bone dust, to be forged and twisted into damascus or composite steel. This is probably nothing new to you guys.
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What interests me is the damascus [gun barrel] steel that was made near Ithaca and in New York City and Boston. I guess I'm also interested in the damascus steel axes and hatchetts from around America, but mostly the the ones made by the Seneca Indians in Lackawanna NY, some under the name Buffalo Black Axe. The federal government played a role in setting up the steel industry in Lackawanna, mainly to employ the Senacas who were being forced to give up their hunting and gathering metheods of survival. I've heard, but not seen, that some of the best L & IJ White carpenters tools where available with Seneca made damascus. L & IJ White hand tools have always been too pricey for me to collect.
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Jerry Swinney once explained to me how the barrels makers of Motts Corners (near Ithaca), who made thousands of barrels for the Civil War effort, continued past the war into barrel steel for sporting guns. It was this skilled human resource coupled with the hydraulic water power thats exists in both Ithaca and Motts Corners that led to the founding of IGC. Before Jerry passed, I photographed most of his material. Now his edited notes are available commercially for about $300 in three volumes. I don't know if the Motts Corners material made into his books [posthumously]...glad I got a unedited copy the way I did.
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Once again my digital camera is loaned to a friend who is taking a run at ebay...tomorrow or Saturday, when I get it back, I'll start posting some hard evidence for your files...
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seems to me the the American Rifleman published an article on American damascus hatchetts and axes (in the 20's)
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Rocketman, maybe I am mistaken, but wasn't Nikolas Bis from Spain? Isn't the Bis name synonymous with European damascus?
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Rev, is that damascus picture trail your doing? It's great!...Either way, did you notice in the photo labeled "ribband" wound around a mandrel, that there is something strange. I think that winding was a factory reject that couldn't be finished...and it looks as though someone has purposly altered it to cover their tracks (as to winding and proper welding)

Robert,

Interesting information. I was able to turn up 2 names in the 1870 census, John B Lull (or Luff) and Benjamin Losey. Both listed their occupation as gunbarrel maker. This is for the Caroline, Tompkins County, NY census track, which for all practical purposes takes in Motts Corner.

What is IGC?

For a picture of Swinney
http://www.remingtonsociety.com/events/8th/Jerry_Swinney.jpg

Pete

Do you happen to know what year? I have most of the latter '20's in my collection.

Drew,

I haven't had a chance to take a picture of me etoile/'American Flag' damascus barrels but it seems you now have a good example. Do you still want a picture?

Pete...Yes... I think the water driven forge at Motts Corners became Losey & Lull (partners) for a period before becoming a blanket factory...One of the Losey decendants is, or was a member of this bullitin board system a few years back...IGC is Ithaca Gun Co...That's a great picture of Jerry...he looks like the actor from the movie "Cocoon" in that picture...I met Jerry around 1980 and kind of modeled my research/collecting after him...he told me some wild stories...based in fact...the most unusual was shortly before he passed, I was taking photos of his hand written files, fast and furious, while Larry Shuktnect was taping voice interviews with him. During one of these interviews, Swinney claimed that the unsolved mysterious common denominator that ran completely through his body of research was...how very many of the gunsmiths, that he spent his life chronicling, had passed away from tuberculosis (with no other explanation)...
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People think the Swinney files are the definitve work on NYS gunsmiths...but I can assure you, those files are only the tip of the iceberg...
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Utah...sorry, I'm not sure when without tearing into my own collection

How about this early Parker Twist barrel, that is mostly steel, with little iron. Thus the gray color.