doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Minor reloading mishap

For the first time in 27 years of reloading, and untold thousands of shells, I fired a primer tonight.

No injuries or damage - good news.

MEC 650 20ga, new production WW209, old lot of Remington Premier (pre-STS) shells.

These shells had been last fired with Cheddite primers, then run through a MEC 'Super Sizer' collet type resizer prior to loading on the 650.

The primer pockets are obviously tight, as a result of resizing with the Cheddite primer in place. The Cheddite is known for being slightly oversize.

The primer fired on seating, much smoke, but no ignited powder. A full measure of clean powder was poured from the shell.

Wife was in adjoining room and was, of course, sure I was dead. Sorry to disappoint... Bourbon does taste good right now.

Moral: Wear safety glasses. It's as important loading as when shooting.

Jonesy,
Good to hear you're no worse for the bang.

I started loading when I was in my mid teens and have stuck primers in rifle case and pistol cases sideways and smushed over the decades. Not one has ever gone off, fortunately.

Thanks... Yes, I've actually sheared pistol pimers in half on Dillon equipment, with no combustion.

This fired 209 does not exhibit much deformation to the base. Nothing that would indicate the pellet was compressed between the base and anvil.

Glad nothing worse than a brown streak in your shorts. How does swaging a base with a relatively large spent primer make a relatively tight primer well?

jack

What Jack just asked was my question from reading your story.
"The primer pockets are obviously tight, as a result of resizing with the Cheddite primer in place. The Cheddite is known for being slightly oversize."
Besides the fact that the conclusion doesn't make sense(to me, at least), there's no reason the Supersizer would have any effect on the primer pocket

My guess is the primer was upside down in the seating station, or a shot pellet was under the primer and set it off before the powder dropped. This could explain why no powder was lit off. See if the seating post isn't flash-burned. In any event, I'm happy you are OK.

I had this happen to me once using a 600 JR. The primer seated fully and then went off. There was no shot in the primer rod and I have no explanation. I would be inclined to think it was a over sensative primer, "probably a female." I too have crunched some over the years and never had them go off.

Lenard

I don't have a 650, but doesn't it seat the primer in an "Empty" hull?? There should be no powder present in the shell case while primer seating. Fortunately propellant powder does not vaporize, at least at temps we work with, like Gasoline so the flame has to actually contact the powder for ignition. Don't think I would want a loader that dropped the powder "Before" seating the primer.

Valid questions.

Here's what I think happened. Been thinking all night on it...

Running the hulls through the Super Sizer squeezed the primer pockets on the fired primers. This thing is the same as a Grabber collet without the deprime operation. This made the shells a bit resistant to depriming... force is required.

Station one on the 650 is deprime. It requires a bit of force to break the old primer out, then the top stage of the unit comes down with some velocity. I didn't really get a feel for how much, since primer number two of the reloading session went bang. I think the shock from the snappy action of the press as a result of more than normal pressure needed to deprime is what set off the cap.

The primer was upright. I saw the sparks travel upward, and the primer was partially seated in the shell.

Reactions being what they are, even at 50, I turned loose of the thing pretty quickly, and the charge bar cycled back under spring pressure, dropping powder. As has been pointed out, this happens (as it must) AFTER the prime operation. What this does tell me, is that the fire had gone completely out by the time the powder came down the tube. The powder bottle is isolated from the drop tube by the action of the bar, an excellent design feature!

SGJ, after reading this, I'm beginning to understand how the Supersizer resize without a punch combined with the overspec Cheddites might result in greater force needed on the handle of the colletless 650 to deprime and the same force suddenly converted into considerable downward momentum of the handle and the dies at all stations including of course the reprime well. Seems we always treat the victim as the culprit and sometimes with justification but it sounds like you've hit upon a special combination of equipment, sequence, and components to produce this result.

I need some breeding stock, Lenard!

jack

Glad to hear that you are alright. The one question I have is that you stated that the Cheddite primers are a little oversize. I don't know what primers you use, but Cheddite 209 and Winchester 209 are compatable are far as size and mechanics for reloading. Cheddite and Winchester both have a smaller diameter step of .240-.241 and then to the larger seating area of .244-.245. CCI .209 and Remington 209 STS are smooth and don't have a step, they both mike .241 front to rear.
The only primers I know of oversize are Fiocchi, I don't have any to mike but they sell a tool to ream the primer pocket to use them.
Years ago (25+) doing a lot of skeet shooting used mostly Winchester AA in 12 ga, 20 ga, and 28 ga. and in the 20 ga. because I shot that more, was able to reload the AA's at least 15 times each, the only thing after that the primer pockets were reamed out so that you could push the primer in by hand.
Just started reloading again in 16 ga. low pressure but haven't fired any shells yet. Using Cheddite 2 1/2" hulls already primed with Cheddite 209 primers. Look like a nice hull, but I won't be shooting nearly as much as back then.

Haven't done the homework on comparative diameters but have loaded 16 ga. in new Canadian Cheddite hulls preprimed with CCIs. Second loading I use W209s and they are a very slack fit--don't fall out but can be pressed out quite easily. Made me think the Winchesters might be smaller.

jack

Yeah, Jack... lucky me...

In defense of the component manufacturers, the hulls in question are 'old' Premier. Pre STS, and probably just ideal for the Rem 209. They are on maybe their 10th reloading cycle and have been trouble free with WW209 and this very same equipment. The only variable is the Cheddite primer.

I'll say again, very happy you were not harmed. Shot happens!