doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com RBL Non-Delivery

I spoke with the Galazan factory this morning concerning my December 2005 pre-paid RBL order.

"The December 2005 orders are just starting to be sent into the shop; once there, delivery is usually 6-8 weeks later. December 2005 was a big order month, and your 12-7-2005 order hasn't been started on yet."

Looks like May delivery is out, and late June may be possible. More likely July 2007, which would be 19 months. Of course two months ago, May delivery seemed likely.

I was at the FLATWATER shoot in Nebraska last weekend. There were many fine shotguns present, and a great group of shooters --but nary a single RBL.

JERRY GOLDSTEIN

19 months? That's like yesterday for a semicustom gun. I have waited that long on just an everyday rifle barrel.

Brent

I'd be waiting 'til the next cycle of global cooling 'fore my deposit 9/28/05 order'd come...if I hadn't cancelled.

True, perhaps, except that the RBL is not really a semi-custom gun. It is more like a production gun with options...


Jerry, you've hung in there this long. At least it seems that the more recent deliveries have had fewer issues than the first batches. So you have that in your favor. When you get it why don't you call up some of the St. Louis contingent so we can all admire it.

What's a semi-custom gun other than a production gun with options? A Shiloh Sharps is less custom than this and waits have run longer than 5 yrs. Right now I believe they are on par with this shottie.

If they made a sweet little hammer gun, I'd be in line to buy one more than likely and think nothing of a 19 mo wait. And I'd fully expect them to be overly optimistic about their deliveries. If there is one constant in the gun world - EVERYTHING takes longer than it is supposed to.

Brent

The whole "custom", "bespoke", "semi-custom", "production with options" thing seems more or less just an increasing curve of options on a production design, in most cases.

I guess it is an increasing curve kind of thing. But a person wishing to buy even an 870 has multitudes more choices to make than the five or six choices an RBL buyer makes.

According to the CSMC RBL update page


It seems that CSMC would like people to think of the RBL as a production gun.

On the other hand they are making guns for specific people so in that sense it is different than the person who chooses an already made 870.

Off the shelf is the same thing, whether it's the retailer's shelf or the gunmaker's shelf.

I may have misunderstood the young lady when I called about my Jan '06 order, but she said exactly the same as Jerry's quote above except - unless I heard wrong - that the next batch which would include mine will also have some deposit orders included. She emphasized that the December order was very large.

IF they can deliver the goods in the 19 months and IF you are genuinely happy with it, it's worth it. Otherwise, maybe not.

FYI- I'm still patiently waiting for my PIF 9/22/05 gun...sigh......'

9/22/05 That has to be close to the first day they were offered...

Good thing you paid in full to get that priority delivery date, otherwise who knows how long you would be waiting...

Doug, probably a silly question but did you check to see that they did not lose your order?

My PIF 10/24/05 RBL was delivered 4/5/07. Because the RBL received so much earlier commentary I was not going to opine, BUT......

The checkering was dreadful - double cut or something with no diamonds visible on most of forearm and a large area on the wrist. The front bead was not on the gun, but loose in the case. When I called Lou in the gun room he told me he had personally seen my gun, and all the RBL's checkering looked like that. He did agree to let me return the gun to have the checkering cleaned up. It was sent back to me a week later with no improvement to the checkering (the bead was attached). I honestly do not feel they touched the checkering.

I asked for a refund and they gave it to me in about 7 to 10 days. You really can not argue with them standing behind the product in this regard.

After 18 months of waiting I was disappointed that the gun did not live up to my rather modest expectations. Unlike many I was not expecting a work of art for my $3,850. I was expecting a gun with reasonable cosmetics, and a more lively feel to hand.

Most of what I had seen on various threads was accurate, the engraving was thin and the stock had a strange satin finish. I could have lived with the engraving, the finish, and possibly the handling, but not the checkering. It's too bad, I really wanted to add one of these guns to my cabinet - american made and all.

For those considering wood upgrades I was disappointed with what they considered "Exhibition Wood". It was ok but I am not sure it was worth an additional $700. Someone, on this site, had an RBL for sale and I think it had 3x wood that was equally as nice as what they sent me.

Wish I had received one of the good ones. Coming from a maker of of some repute, I am baffled why the quality control is so poor.

Chicago,
I also observed the 'doubled' checkering or 'mismatch' of the lines or whatever you want to call it, on my friend's RBL. It was as bad as the worst amatuer checkering attempt I've seen. All burned black and virtually a collage of lines with most of the diamonds non existant.

The 'engraving' was not as bad as the checkering, but looked like it had been buffed in an attempt to coverup poorly executed work.

I'm really disappointed that they put out a gun like this. It would have been more acceptable to the market, IMO, to have put out the gun as an unengraved model. The checkering debacle is a mystery to me, since Builder and I got a demo of the laser checkering machine on a RBL forend,which turned out nearly perfect (except for the burnt look). Truly disappointing.

Chuck and Chicago -

Credible firsthand reports like yours, while not the norm, still make me consider cancelling my order. I ordered thinking the RBL would be a good value, but it seems too much of a crapshoot. I don't need another 20 ga. SxS, and definitely don't need the hassle of returning a gun twice because nothing was done to correct one of the problems it was returned to have fixed. I'd be really irritated by that, and not so generous as Chicago is when he compliments CSMC for standing behind the guns with a refund.

Looks like they're limiting the hours/$ they'll put into a gun to maintain a required profit margin on each one. Beyond that they will take it back rather than assign an employee whose skills have a higher return when employed on their high-end custom guns.

I wonder what happens to returned guns like this. I hope they don't just ship again to someone who ordered the same options. Maybe they put on a new stock and forend for the next buyer and sacrifice the original wood.

Tony is a business man, and profits are in the driver seat.

I really don't understand how they can screw up the checkering that badly. Most of the major gun makers have been using machine cut checkering for at least ten years. Surely if someone like remington can turn out stocks with flawless CNC machine cut checkering then galazan could do so also. I don't understand the insistence upon doing it with a laser when the results are suspect and there are proven low cost methods that give better results.

The algorithm is the tough part to CNC work. The computer simply follows its program, that's all it can know, and developing that program for a specific gun is not cheap. Remmington and other makers turn guns out left and right since they are production makers and that's how they absorb the cost. The laser works behind the same principle, but that cost is probably less than using a CNC.

I cancelled mine a few months ago. Heck, a 20 guage isn't good for much anyway!

In regards to returning and re-selling guns. When I worked at Colt fact. I was told that any guns that were picked up by the Co. for non payment couldn't be resold in the USA as new guns due to a fed. law. Ken

Sometimes I feel as though CSMC is using the RBL as an apprentice program for their other models. I can't believe with all their experience building Foxes, Model 21's etc. that they would ship an RBL that was of questionable quality. Who inspects the guns before they are shipped? Where is quality control? Something just doesn't add up. Many RBL owners have been very pleased with their guns yet others are dissapointed. This thread makes me want to cancel my PIF 1/06 order. They need my money more than I need another 20 ga.

Unfortunately, building guns of high quality isn't it's own reward. Those who pay high-end custom gun prices undeniably get fine quality. Those who pay $2500 to $4,000 get what comes off the line. Many are quite good, some not so much. Lou at CSMC saw this gun before shipment and told Chicago it was within spec. They got it back, looked at it again, and confirmed that it was good enough for an RBL. This isn't about failure of quality control, it's a about how much the owner of CSMC is willing to spend on RBL quality.

My gun was ordered 11/26/2005 and I am still waiting. I have called several times, but no one knows when the gun will ship or where it is in the production queue.
It was supposedly started the third week in Feb. Next call it was started the first week in March....nobody can answer the simple question: "Where's my gun?"
I'm told to be patient and I will be rewarded...maybe not.

I have three dogs in this hunt. One ordered very early and two later. These threads kind of make me sorry for the desire to buy American sometimes. Still, unless my health goes south fast I will wait. Now it still has to be determined if my wait is in vain. But from what I see the used or resale market for these guns is holding up fairly well so it should be no big deal to move them if I am not happy.

On a horse of another color I can almost bet the farm that if and when Ken gets th modern Lefever custom gun program that there will be a whole lot less bitching. But we are talking about a gun that will end up costing several times what the RBL cost so maybe that is to be expected. Time will tell.

I can understand wanting to buy American but there seems to be at least half a dozen makers in the $2.5k-$4k range that make a respectable firearm and not have to wait over a year.

It's really a shame they either can not, or feel it is not necessary to turn out a gun with consistent quality.

Tony would be way ahead of the game to next time offer: 1) gun in the white, which I think they will now do. 2) Offer as upgrades - custom stock dimensions, hand engraving (more than one option), hand checkering and hand rubbed stock finish. It complicates the manufacturing process, but I for one would have paid up to have those options, and the gun would be in my cabinet.

Builder-
You asked whether I'd checked on my PIF 09/22/05 order... the answer is 'yes' but not recently...
I called back in Sept '06 and was told that it just went to the floor and they were now building my configuration(AOS, Exhibition Claro, ST, SG, 14 3/4" pull). Can anyone tell me if they have received theirs that have these same options???- Doug

Doug,
I am sorry that you have not received yours yet. Something does not sound right. Someone posted they are up to the December orders. I think you should have a long and patient talk with Carol. If that does not help, call back again and talk to Lou.

I ordered mine with exhibition Turkish, straight grip, 14 3/4, splinter, double triggers and got it 14 months after a 9/21 PIF order. If I recall correctly, they were delivering the single trigger before the double trigger.

Best,
Milt

It's odd that no one has posted any pictures or posts of recent deliveries. If there are 100 guns per week going into the shop it seems as though there would be some happy new owners wanting to share their hopefully good news.

Doug:
Regardless of configuration your 9/22/05 order should have been to you several months ago. October 2005 was a big order month and my PIF 10/24/05 order was delivered to me 4/7/07. Reading various threads my order was delivered late.

According to Carol they have been building based on order date for quite awhile, and stopped building based on configuration over a year ago.

Hopefully you will receive a good one.

Sounds like a call is in order tomorrow......I'll let everyone know what their response is..Thanks--Doug