doublegunshop.com - home Forums NY Times admits Iraq had WMD'S after all !

How do we know about anything, Gary? How do we know about the goings-on in Washington or Ferguson? Not that we believe all of it, depending on the source. Clergymen describe a bounteous hereafter but no one has ever seen it.

Google fragging in Vietnam, go to your library, get a book, check Amazon. The assault by soldiers on their officers in Vietnam is writ large in the public record. No need to look for survivors to confirm it. It's part of history.

Seriously, Obama destroyed the Iraqi army? It fell apart because of him? Like the myth of Bush invading to remove WMD?

Two weeks after 9/11 Donald Rumsfield wrote in his calendar after meeting with Bush:

"After the meeting ended I went alone to the Oval Office---He was alone
He was at his desk---
He talked about the meet
Then he said I want you to develop a plan
to invade Iraq. Do it outside the normal channels. Do it creatively so we don't have to take so much cover."

Consequences of the debacle are still with us. American occupation made Iraq a breeding ground for jihadists. IS sprung from it, mostly now in Iraq. You are accurate in that the US did an excellent job rebuilding the Iraqi army. Soldiers, however, don't fight for what they don't believe in. The army was riven by tribal animosities. US staying 100 years wouldn't have changed it.

"DoD has been organized, trained and equipped to fight big armies, navies and air forces. It is not possible to change DoD fast enough to successfully fight the global war on terror."---Donald Rumsfield, October 16 2003

here since your now a Rumsfled fan:

Donald Rumsfeld, who served as U.S. Defense Secretary under President George W. Bush, blames poor diplomacy by the Obama administration for the current strained relations with Afghan President Hamid Karzai.

"Our relationship with Karzai and with Afghanistan was absolutely first-rate in the Bush administration," Rumsfeld told Fox News's Greta Van Susteren on Monday. "It has gone down hill like a toboggan ever since the Obama administration came in."


Rumsfeld pointed to the fact that the Obama administration has failed to get Karzai to sign an agreement that would allow some U.S. troops to remain in Afghanistan after 2014, when combat ends.

The U.S. has status of forces agreements with more than a hundred countries, Rumsfeld noted. "A trained ape can get a status of forces agreement," he said. "It does not take a genius. And we have so mismanaged that relationship."

It is possible on the internet to find a world of information that would seem to lend credence to ANY position I would care to take.
A nice way of saying the net has a lot of BS floating around. I wouldn't doubt a 90 day wonder got slammed by men who refused to let him get them senselessly killed, (not enough NCO's to teach the looies how to survive)but you make it sound like it was an everyday occurrence. I have many good friends who survived Nam and all I've talked to paint a different picture than the anti-war advocates who weren't there. Politics should never be a factor in war.

I've forgotten how many cases---I'm sure it's on google---but the fragging was part of soldiers not believing what they were fighting and dying for and they killed officers who were seeing their duty and leading them to it.

I've talked to many Vietnam veterans as well. Had one and his wife to lunch last Saturday. Like most veterans I've interviewed, the Tennessee infantryman remembers it primarily as "the waste, the waste."

Politics is always a factor in war. The old quote from a strategy master referred to war as an extension of politics.

I believe it was General Curtis Lemay,and probably others, who told Lyndon Johnson not to get involved in a ground war in Vietnam. This advice was of course ignored as we well know today.

King,

your becoming the "Baghdad Bob" of Obama's foreign policy combined with the Swiftboat Kerry on here.
Care to add some Hanoi Jane and go for the trifecta of ignoring facts-and using the infamous "look it up" and "I heards" of the internet ?

Sure, Karzai played both sides, with the Taliban and the US, and came out of it as the Afghans always do. Re his judgment, let's not forget Rumsfield said the US would be in and out of Iraq in four months. There would be no occupation. "I don't do quagmires," he said.

I often wonder why Bush even gave Rumsfield the job. He was no friend of the Bushes. He tried to thwart his father's run for the presidency. Nixon loved him "as a ruthless little bastard." Rumsfield had no strategic or tactical sense, sending in less than half the troops Bush senior committed for Desert Storm.

Consider, too, when criticizing Obama for pulling out in response to public demands, Rumsfield ignored the Pentagon's objections to his strategy: not enough troops, not enough materiel. He managed the quagmire: 4,500 US dead, 11,000 wounded, a trillion dollars---and counting.

It's now the West's burden.

The Bottom Line:

FACTS:
Iraq had and used WMDs in the form of chemical weapons against their own people and remains of these WMDs were found while we were there. Remaining stocks were sent to Syria and are still there today.

With all the B.S. spewed out by the left over terminology and who said what in this thread the above facts are irrefutable.

This should cut right to the quick of the Libtard B.S. in the 8 pages of this thread.

Odd, everyone has a take on history and lessons learned except for the pres of the second greatest country. Why are we back, doesn't he know what you know?