doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com French Shotguns: A Call for Information

Ha, Ha, ha...Got news for you, Robert-the first two guns and the "Darne" guns listed in your post are not "Darnes" at all-they are Francisque Darne guns. One has to be careful not to get the two distinct manufacturers confused.

Darne Fils roughly translates to "Darnes son", or, "Darne junior". You can get better descriptions of the guns in the Jallas & Cie era (1936) Francisque Darne catalog, available as a reprint from info arms.
Best,
Ted

I have never been able to locate "Info Arms", I assumed they went out of bidness (that's how our local politicians sometimes pronounce business on the news)...does anyone know how to find Info Arms?

Ted. are you sure about the Darne V series proofs. My 1931 v20 shows three marks. The 36 catalogue is contrdictory/ The table says three palms means triple proof. The text says it means double proof while 4 palms means triple proof. Which is correct?Dr. Dozier sends

So that everyone else can be on the same page...if this is out of line, just say so and I will delete these images...

Ted, I've seen an example of the Darne aviation machinegun: in the US Army Ordnance Museum, Aberdeen Proving Grounds. I knew about Darne shotguns before I went there. Had no idea about the MG.

Ok, I'll play too. Here is my French Box lock that I know nothing about! Where these guns case colored? There is nothing at all on this gun.

I'm pretty sure four palms was the old pre 1923 superior proof with black powder. My dog ate my copy of Wernsberger, but, it is in there. The danger of relying on catalogs for research is an occasional typo, or, out and out falsehood will be seen in print. Catalogs are put together by writers, who may, or may not have knowledge of the product at hand. Uh, no offense intended, Larry.

If Mr. Customer came in the door and asked for triple proof on his new V grade gun, he got it-not for free, however, they charged a couple bucks (francs) for this. The catalog information does match up with examples I have seen, and the fact that V grade double rifles were discontinued early in the century-an R is a far more robust design, and better suited for slug and double rifle use. If one has a V20 that shows triple proof, well, it was triple proofed. But not all of them (talking pre-war here, I think everything was triple proofed after the war) were. Especially if one purchased it off the rack.

The address for info arms is


Info Arms
PO Box 1262
Champlain, NY 12919

No idea if they are still in business. But I have a stack of reprints I bought from them years ago.

Larry, I got to handle a Darne aviation machine gun, in France. But, it was in the hands of a private "collector" and he would go to prison for the rest of his life if anyone in France found out who he was.
Since it uses uncommon ammunition (12mm, I think) I'm not sure what the big deal is, but, there you have it.

To review today's lessons:

There were two companies that produced sliding breech guns with the name Darne on them. With study, and practice, one can learn to tell them apart. Or, you can just look at the name-one will be marked "F. Darne" and one will be marked "Darne".

There were other companies and individuals that produced sliding breech guns, with, and without a name on them. Some of them are simple copies, some are quite good in their own right, and some, like the Charlin, are arguably more novel or superior in design.

Although, don't argue the point with me, as I prefer a Darne R model over and above anything else.

Class dismissed.
Best,
Ted

Thanks Ted, You really are the font of knowledge when it comes to Darnes. Dr. Dozier sends with gratitude for clearing up the mystery. As a former broadaster and broadcast professor I should know not to trust copy writers.

Lets not forget Soleihac?, Alexandre Bayle, Blandin, Lebel, Meyer, Conchon, and Verney Carron and more...all made sliding breech shotguns...and it would be unfair to not even mention Jas Merrill of Baltimore MD, who began the evolution of the pivoting key mechanism (lock up) with single shots in 1858 (US pat 20954)
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Thanks, I'll try writing to info arms at that address if they have no telephone listing.
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dubbletrubble...your pics are great, but what about the lock up and rib extension...although the gun was clearly proved in St Etienne, without seeing the lock up it's hard to determine if it's a St. Etienne action, or a Liege action that was barreled and joined by Fanget Freres, proved in St Etienne and finished by DR or Chevillard, which is an unknown makers mark to me. Thanks for posting this DR gun, I suspect that the French boxlocks can be broken down not only by the action origins (Liege, Manufrance,Verney), but by the barrels makers like Jean Bruiel (sp?), Fanget, Lugranit, Jean Falla (Be) and others...Auxerre is much closer to Paris than St Etienne...why send it a distant city for proving? unless it was made in St Etienne and supplied to Chevillard already joined and proved to be stocked and finished in Auxerre..if that is the case, it will have a Verney type lock up rather than the Purdey type triple verrou or the Greener type lock up that is more closely associated with actions that have their origins in Liege rather than St Etienne...

DT, that's a very typical French boxlock. Single (normal) St. Etienne proof. Fanget made a lot of barrels; have seen that name frequently on French guns. My guess would be that it's a St. Etienne gun, made for M. Chevillard's gun shop in Auxerre. Whether Chevillard did anything at all to the gun, other than sell it, is questionable. Maybe stock it and finish it . . . that "ARQB" is an abbreviation for arquebusier, or gunmaker--but I think it was also used by a lot of gun dealers/gunsmiths who really weren't makers at all.

And DT, you'll be happy to know your gun has barrels that won't explode. Says so right on them.

Robert, I've never seen a Verney-Carron sliding breech gun. All the side by sides they advertise currently are made elsewhere. Wonder if perhaps they had someone else make Darne-type guns for them at some point?