doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com French Shotguns: A Call for Information

I have always found French firearms very interesting. I purchased a French shotgun several months ago and would like to see what information anyone has regarding French shotguns and invite anyone who shares this interest or who owns a French shotgun join in the discussion. Please post photos of your guns and share or seek information about your shotgun. As long as the shotgun is French please consider nothing off topic here!

I'll get the ball rolling with what will most likely win the award for lowest grade (sans-culottes for you Francophiles) shotgun under discussion. The 16ga shotgun pictured below was manufactured by MAC (Manufacture de Armes Chatterault ). I believe this to be a government owned arsenal, more famous for the manufacture of machine guns than for manufacture of sporting weapons. It appears to be a rather standard A&D box lock with a few twists (it does have the third lock up on the extended rib and some side screws over the pin that are prone to shooting lose). Previous responses I have obtained indicated that the Paris proof was rather unusual for a sporting arm and that this shotgun was “double proofed”.

In addition to the MAC manufacture, the prominent serial number on the butt stock would appear consistent with government issue as is the total lack of adornment (I have seen other French shotguns with serial numbers on the butt stock). The shotgun is very light, however, the construction very robust (save for the firing pin that broke on my example) and the trigger pulls are rather heavy. The overall appearance of the shotgun leads me to believe it is of pre-war vintage and may have been a war prize, however, I would not be overly surprised to learn it was made later.

Any information anyone has on this particular shotgun, year of manufacture, use and etc. would be most welcome and anyone seeking or having information, including photos of any (or all) of their French shotguns would likewise be most welcome.

This one never known to wear pants either.

jack

Jack-

Really interesting and far fancier than the MAC, I'd say yours "wore pants" (at least compared to the MAC)! I'd love to see a close up of the action, it looks very unusual around the top lever. How old is it?

Doug

PS I am guessing post war, maybe 1960s or so given the 70mm chambers.

From what Ted Schefelbein has said in the past (I didn't request documentation or an affidavit), your extrapolation of DOM from chamber lgth is likely correct give or take a decade and probably made by Fusil Darne rather than the defunct Charlin. The "beach" photo of the fat lady's heel and toe doesn't really show the sliding breech or toggle lever very well and was taken only to call attention to the "recurve" in the comb.

jack

The star marks are not Charlin, they used a rabbit and their guns were not triple proofed. I say that advisedly as mine and two others I have examined are only single proofed and have 65mm chambers. I am surmising this as the info on Charlin pre Darne is almost nil. Regards, Dr. Dozier sends

I am ready to load the MAC catalog and photos, the problem is, the photo hosting servers are jammed with heavy traffic at the moment. For whatever it's worth, I have owned several doubles and seen many more with the same arsenal type numbers stamped into the stock. About 1985, I bought a Belgian Vendrix and a German Griefelt boxlock that both had arsenal numbers, the dealer [Ron Peterson], explained to me that many doubles were "Drafted" into the French military for use on guard duty and military police work. He had many to choose from, and I had no reason to doubt him. Based on what Ron Peterson told me, my guess is that the MAC shown above is pre-war, even though the catalog appears to be post-war...at least printed after '45...I don't read French, so the readers who do, will have to interpret for those of us who don't...Photobucket is still jammed

I miss the eponyms but am otherwise satisfied.

jack

The Star marks are most definitely Charlin, and, from time to time, Charlins turn up that are triple proofed-case in point.

Since Charlin was in business a good part of a century, under three owners that I can document (there may have been more) examination of three specimens doesn't really tell one much. I'd guess I've handled and photographed maybe 100, and will confess to rank amatuer status, nothing more.

I've seen the running bunnies (they are not mentioned in any of the catalogs I have on hand, all pre Darne, by the way) and a different code, using letters and numbers, that I've had no success in cracking. I owned one marked LC-1, (with stars) and never found out where it fit into the picture, other than it was a low grade gun. I've also seen a Charlin with a hollow, ventilated rib, a stainless steel Charlin, and a catalog of what can only be called "art deco", and "Celtic" engraved Charlins, which, I have (frustratingly) never seen an example of.

They tried hard, anyway. They still failed.

If someone was interested in documenting French civilian firearms, they are about 70 years and a world war too late.
It is possible that there are manufacturers that NO information exists about at this juncture, or, the information hasn't come to light. With the passing years, that light grows more dim. The Nazi occupation at St. Etienne was not a kind one, and much of the information that wasn't discarded by the occupiers was destroyed by the French resistance, in the hope of confusion.

When I was last in St. Etienne, I asked the Bruchets about 10 gauge Darnes-they had never heard of, worked on, or seen an example. I had seen two at that point. I asked about sliding breech guns built on the 1894 R patent, proofed in St. Etienne, and marked Abeille (means honeybee, I think) which I had brought photos of-never seen one. And, it didn't get much more than a shoulder shrug.

The gunmakers passion, in this case, is not guns, at least not those not of his own making. Further, their hobby's are not gun related, as in shooting or hunting. They didn't have an interest in the history, that I could tell.

Sorry, but, lots of times, the only evidence, is the gun in hand. Until such time that someone can scour every library, and sift through the remaining paperwork from long gone manufacturers, and interview anyone who is left, in France, that is likely the way it will stay. And, don't bother with the library in Lyon-they have almost nothing. I tried.

Best,
Ted

'Charlin AUTOMATIQUE' sounds frightening in a good kind of way! Where is crystal decanter full of Hennessy?

Bon jour, I'll start my contribution with my Halifax:





JC(AL)