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The gun at the NRA Museum has 3 Iron 'Oxford' similar to the 'Oxford 4 S.J.' found on Remington 1894 B grades

CZ, the NRA gun is a good one. I have seen a half dozen B Grades that have similar engraving quality, so I assume it is a B Grade. Hard to believe Syracuse Arms could have had two higher grades.

CZ,
That NRA gun is truly a work of art. I agree that the darkness is probably old patina. Now, I'd think twice about doing anything to a high grade gun in such high original condition. But, if it had been in poor condition, (such as my Hollenbeck) I'd want the restoration to be as close to factory original as possible. I'm certainly NOT going to attempt to create a 100 year old "patina" on my gun. But, as always, "To each his own". I can't but help wonder what that gun would look like if the barrels were in the same shape (contrast) as the ones DocDrew posted earlier.

Marsh Birds? We're thinking the same way. My Hollenbeck may very well replace my 16Ga Flues as my preferred Snipe gun. Since my cousin is set up for 12Ga reloading, he'll be able to load me some low pressure "Spreader" rounds.

John,
DocDrew's response on barrels was pretty comprehensive, but I'm eagerly awaiting Tom's answer to see if he has anything to add.

Regards,
Ken

Doc Drew pretty much covered the gamut of barrel steels used/offered by Syracuse Arms as described in late period SAC catalogs published after 1901; but I've found almost nothing in terms of factory literature for the very early Hollenbeck gun period, so who can say definitively what barrels steels (other than Twist and Damascus) were used during that era. In fact, barrel steel type was generally not marked on SAC barrels before sn8XXX (I've yet to see an example anyway). The gun in the NRA link is, as Daryl has indicated, an early Grade B gun; it is engraved in the typical early Grade B style (no game scenes, all scroll and border work), and the only thing remarkable about that gun (other than condition) is that it is a "live bird" gun and the only SAC gun I've come across to date ordered w/o a safety slide. Maybe Dr. Drew can/will post more information; but in reading some of his posts on period pigeon shoots, apparently one intrepid soul competed in those great turn of the century pigeon shoots using a SAC gun (maybe this is that gun?).
From my observations, the early Grade A (like the example on GB) and the early Grade B SAC guns have the same Damascus barrel pattern (unlike Doc Drew I'm not expert in reading Damascus patterns); and there is no difference between those grades with the exception of engraving coverage. By the time the 1901 catalog was issued, the engraving pattern on the SAC Grade B gun had changed so that it no longer featured 100% border and scroll work; it now featured scroll and border work with pointing dogs on each side of the frame, and game scene on the trigger guard bow. This late B style featured a pointer on the left side of the frame and a setter on the right (I think?); and I've seen no variation on that style except that on two examples the dogs are engraved so that one is pointing towards the muzzles, and the other towards the shooter (a neat twist I thought). The 1901 catalog listed the retail price of the B Grade with this new engraving pattern at $125, the same cataloged price of the early style 100% scroll engraved Grade B it replaced; but that price had jumped to $175 by the time the 1902 catalog burst on the scene. And with the introduction of the new B Grade engraving style, Damascus barrel steel was upgraded also from "Fine Quality Damascus" to "Finest Grade Damascus" (Grade C and D SAC guns from the same period were furnished with "Finest Grade of Damascus Steel of very fine figure, fully warranteed; and upon request, "the finest Grade of Damascus Steel Barrels that can be Obtained"). The two late period Grade B SAC guns I've owned (and others I've seen) had very finely figured Damascus patterns that Buck Hamlin described as "hard English Damascus" because he learned in the browning process that these SAC tubes had a very high steel content; again I don't claim to know beans about Damascus barrel steels, so I'm merely repeating what I was told.
All the early period Grade B guns I've seen featured the same engraving and coverage as the NRA gun; and were cataloged priced at $125 in early catalogs. These early SAC catalogs made no mention of SAC Grades higher than Grade B, and I've found no examples of early Grade C or D SAC guns (1896 to 1900) to contradict those catalogs. In fact, I've found a 1901 article stating that it was good to have the Syracuse Arms Company back in the high-grade gun business after an absence of many years. In the early Hollenbeck marked guns, I've found examples of Grade 0, 1, 2, 3, and D; all Grade D guns were engraved differently (and some had a number stamp by the grade stamp for which I don't have a good theory as to its meaning), but I've never found a Hollenbeck marked SAC gun grade stamped A, B, or C. I've found two Grade C Syracuse marked SAC guns with low 4-digit numbers, but both examples had late production features (I'll finish an article at some point on one of those guns, and that example could not have been manufactured until late 1903 when the sliding cocking hook feature was introduced). Damascus barrels of differing qualities were always cataloged SAC gun grades from Grade 2 up thru Grade C; Whitworth was always cataloged as standard on late Grade D guns, with Damascus barrels being optional. On Grades A, A-1, B, and C; Krupp barrels were always cataloged as optional. I've seen several Grade A guns with Krupp barrels, one Grade C gun with Krupp; but have yet to see a single example of the Grade B SAC gun with Krupp barrels. Improved Damascus (the SAC barrel steel photo posted by Doc Drew above) was the only cataloged barrel steel ever available on the Grade 3 gun; but I've seen two Grade 3 examples with factory installed Krupp barrels during the past two years. All high grade guns depicted inside SAC's largest and most comprehensive 1902 and 1903 factory catalogs feature Damascus barrels. The most beautiful SAC guns I've ever seen are early production examples, both are marked "THE HOLLENBECK"; and I can't decide which I like best. At first glance one would think SAC gun no.180 was a 12-bore but it is actually a very light weight 10-bore 30" Hollenbeck gun grade-stamped "D3" that I featured in the DGJ about 2 years ago; it is a beautiful example with very early cosmetic features that weren't available later on, and a gun that remains in outstanding original condition. The second gun in my personal "tie" is Paul's Hollenbeck gun that I featured years ago in the DGJ. That gun is in the 2XXX range and grade stamped "D". As I recall it featured 9 different game scenes (more than any SAC gun I've ever seen), beautifully figured English walnut with a factory Monte Carlo comb, and still in very high condition. The most interesting SAC gun I've ever seen has no serial number, no patent date stamps; and has features that never went into gun production. A depiction of this fascinating gun was first featured in the 1895 edition of the City of Syracuse directory (and much later in the DGJ); and I believe that gun to be the prototype gun that was built by Frank Hollenbeck himself It's finding SAC nuances such as some of these noted here that keep the study of the SAC gun interesting for me. And as FYI, I've recently discovered a new variation of SAC's late model sliding cocking hook feature; a very interesting variation to me, and something I'll try to share at some point soon. I've obviously gotten carried away and apologize for the length of this post; but do hope some of this information was helpful and/or interesting.

Wonderful detail Tom, it's greatly appreciated.

Here we are all tied up with barrel pattern and metal finish, and everyone forgot about the second question. I'll try to answer it, but all my knowledge (as usual) is second-hand.

It's my understanding that the Hollenbeck/Syracuse boxlock action was a new design, one by Hollenbeck himself. As I recall from seeing one of the old ads, it was marketed as having fewer parts, therefore being a stronger and more reliable action.
Regards
Ken

Thank you all very much. The research and knowledge of all speaks in volumes to the interest in classic American SxSs and I can't thank you all enough for your generosity.

I saw a Syracuse on GI at Cabelas in Wisconsin. It has some engraving but nothing like those in the links presented in these posting and the barrels look as if they are similar to those Doc Drew posted above, although not as nice.

The barrel pattern sold the gun for me and if I can purchase it I,ll have them refinished.

Once again, thank you all.

Found Tom's Grade 2 SAC. The right barrel has the "New Twist" pattern; but is roll-stamped "Improved Damascus". The left barrel is "Washington". It may have been a salesman's sample gun?

I found my Syracuse Arms "A grade" a few years ago and I couldn't pass it up. I just love being able to switch the ejectors "off" and "on" as the situation calls for. I wish all doubles had this option.









Model2128Ga

That's a beauty for sure. I'd buy that one if I had found it.
I just love the way the stocks are shaped on the nicer Syracuse guns. The comb nose rebates, and the sway of the grip cap really look good to me. It took me a while to warm up to the elongated panels and the angular action shape, but now they are some of my favorites.

Syracuse's typical flattened look to the trigger guard never looks that good to me however. They always look compressed, though they work just fine.

Nice find. Use it in good health.

Model2128Ga - That's a very nice A Grade; and you won't find many SAC guns with unmolested screws; a very nice find indeed. Interestingly, the serial number of your gun is very close to the serial number of the Grade A gun depicted in the 1902 and 1903 large SAC catalogs, as well as the 1904 pocket catalog, SN 25317. The SN of the D Grade gun depicted in the 1902 and 1903 SAC catalogs is 25307 (Grade C and D was not depicted in any pocket catalog I've seen); that gun still exists, and the Grade A and D guns in those catalogs are the only high-grade serial numbers legible. My SN research indicates that high-grade SAC guns have frames numbered in blocks, and I assume that is because of the manner in which frames were sent to the engraver.

CZ - The SAC trigger guard does indeed give the gun a unique look. The earliest Hollenbeck marked SAC guns had a more traditional shape; but SAC adopted the flattened guard bow feature after only a few hundred guns, and I don't recall seeing that feature on any original example with a 4-digit serial number. I theorize that the change may have been made to accommodate gloved fingers; but it could have been a feature adopted simply to give the SAC gun a unique/slightly different "look" than their competition.
Interesting note on the On/Off device is that, in the 1902 catalog, the only high-grade SAC gun (any grade gun) depiction featuring that device was the Grade D. That feature was noted in the other (and in the Grade D depiction also) as follows: "We also attach to this grade of gun, without extra charge, our new device (patent applied for) for instantly changing gun from an Automatic Ejector to a Non-Ejector". On all hammerless grades lower that Grade A, the On/Off device could be ordered for an additional $5 on guns ordered with the SAC auto-ejector option; but auto-ejectors were available as a standard feature on all Grade A guns from the time (1895-96?) the company began fitting auto ejectors to their guns.