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Forums10
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Apr 29th, 2024
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 227
Sidelock
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OP
Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 227 |
As a follow up to my post on shooting damascus barreled shotguns.
How much pressure did the old blackpowder loads generate?
For those of you shooting damascus barreled shotguns, what is your comfort level in terms of psi for your damascus shotgun? I am using the 5,000 psi factory loads (I do not yet reload).
Some other factory loads I am considering trying are in the 6,000 psi range (but less than 7,000psi).
Thanks in advance for your replies-
Doug
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15 |
Doug,
I shoot a Parker damascus hammerless from around 1905 and an 1892 Ithaca Crass with handloads that measure around 6500 psi.
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Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 518
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 518 |
My J. Blanch & Son back-action sidelever damascus barreled hammergun has a MWT of .022 and was nitro proofed in 2000 at the Birmingham Proof House for 850 bar. I shoot this gun for skeet, sporting clays and ocassionally carry it ruffed grouse hunting with 7/8 and 1 oz. loads that generate 4300 and 5100 psi respectively at about 1150 fps...others prefer to shoot loads in the 7000-7500 psi range, but I prefer a good margin of safety.
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 194
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 194 |
I shoot loads of 4200 - 5000 psi, both handloads and the new Federal 7/8 oz loads in all my damascus shotguns. Others are comfortable with pressures in the 7000 psi range. I have never felt handicapped with the loads I shoot at either hunting or clay target shooting.
LCSMITH
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Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 230
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2003
Posts: 230 |
OK...So how do you determine how much pressure a BP load is generating? Say I want to know the pressure difference between a 3 dram and 4 dram goose load in a 10 ga damascus with 1 1/4 oz of bismuth. Any rule of thumb without sending the loads off for inspection?
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Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 194
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Sep 2006
Posts: 194 |
You've got me. I don't think there is ever a rule of thumb when it comes to determining actual pressures. In regard to black powder, I am baffled by the fact that there are literally thousands of smokeless loads published with pressure information, yet I have never seen the same information published for black powder. Maybe I'm just not looking in the right places. Sherman Bell has published comparitive info in the DGJ, but, I believe, only for 12 ga. and possibly 10 ga. I would like to see Sherman Bell or Tom Armbrust pressure test a few loads in 10, 12, 16, and 20 ga with black powder and publish the results, as I think there is quite a bit of interest. However, from what I can determine, they are already very busy guys. Maybe one reason these tests have not been done or published (I assume) is that there is a general feeling that appropriate black powder loads in any gun in good condition are safe, because that is what the older guns were designed to shoot. Hopefully, someone more informed than myself can shed some light on the subject.
LCSMITH
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Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 34
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Dec 2006
Posts: 34 |
I bet if you look in a Dixie Gunworks catalog you will find some guidelines. Lots of neat info in those books. jd
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Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 213
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Jul 2005
Posts: 213 |
GENTLEMEN:
YES, SHERMAN BELL HAS PUBLISHED A GOOD BIT OF VERY GOOD INFORMATION REFERENCE PSI OF BP LOADS AND OF EQUIVALENT SMOKELSS AMMO. I REGULARLY SHOOT METALLIC CARTRIDGE CO.BP 10 GA. LOADS THAT ARE IN THE 5900 TO 65OO PSI RANGE IN MY L.C. SMITH AND LEFEVER GUNS. POLYWAD ALSO NOW OFFERS SOME 2 1/2 INCH VINTAGER LOADS WITH A 12 GA. PSI OF 6500 WHICH SHOULD ALSO DO NICELY IN ANY DAMASCUS OR TWIST GUN THAT IS IN GOOD CONDITION.
TOM
Luck is the residue of good intention and hard work.
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Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,812
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,812 |
Three damascus-barreled doubles and 1918 Flues steel-barrels all get 5500psi max. I shot some 6800psi loads in the "decarbonized" (early fluid steel) barrels of 1905 Remmy 1889 once and decided even that was pushing it. 8 working fingers and 2 thumbs are not any extra if you work for a living. It's all pretty much target fodder for me as I don't appear competent to hunt birds at any range beyond 30 yrds.with anything but my m12 and I push those loads up to 1290 fps. and a bit more pressure although still well under 9000psi.
jack
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,624 Likes: 13
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 1,624 Likes: 13 |
I believe the most important consideration is the condition of the barrels: wall thickness and integrity of the welds. If they are sound and of sufficient thickness (maybe .030), most smiths would say you are OK up to pressures of 7,500 psi or so. 12 ga loads are numerous in the 6k range but the sub gauges are more difficult to provide a low pressure diet.
[IMG]
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