doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion German & Austrian Sporting Guns @ doublegunshop.com German drilling gun

Might be the same engraver as below?? No, closer inspection negates the possibility of a sideplated example. Locks have a different pin configuration from below and the term orig.(original) is not persent.





Tale purported by listing on Edgar Strempel, Suhl 1955 example

"he(Strempel) made guns for the Soviet leaders. The consignor's notes state that Edgar Strempel employed and/or worked closely with 2 of the most famous European engravers- Karl Kolb and Richard Schilling, the well known and sought after locksmith Guido Kessel and the best actioner August Wuelfing. The stock was made by Ernst and Karl Roell. Walter Schilling was the metal finisher/bluer. The consignor's notes also state that this shotgun was probably made for Nikolai Bulganin who became Chairman of the Council of People's Commissars of the Russian SFSR in 1955. Somehow this shotgun came into possession of Leonid Brezhnev after he became the leader of the Soviet Union in 1964. This shotgun was possibly confiscated from Bulganin after he fell into disgrace and was excluded from the Central Communist Party. Brezhnev then made a gift of this shotgun to the then President of the Soviet Armenian Republic, Anton Kochinyan during a state visit to Armenia In 1969."

Dear Raimey,

I am positively amazed by your profound knowledge of German shotguns. I have a sample of the wonderful photos from your photobucket address. It will take me a while to appreciate them all.

Would you care to take a look of other two shotguns? Sorry they are not German ones. Thanks.

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_3ec4d3090101fn1i.html
http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_3ec4d3090101fn0x.html

With kind regards,
Haibin

The J.P. Sauer & Sohu shotgun was a gife from Russian Marshal Kliment Voroshilov to Chinese leader in 1957. It makes somebody wonder why a Russian would send out a German shotgun as a gift (on another occasion he sent out a probably MC-6). Your last response explains convincely.

Correct. Edgar Strempel & the mechanics in Suhl(& Zella-Mehlis) were some of the top shelf gunmakers period. They were trained by the best of the best so what else could you expect. After the Germans made the Russians mad in WWII, the Russians had Suhl under their thumb and at 1st many sporting weapons were made for Russian officers by Edgar Strempel & Otto Rief, who was an auto racer at Simsom & I think had Strempel or someone else to source his sporting weapons. The Russians could have sourced a sporting weapon from Tula but why reinvent the wheel when they have been making wheels for a very long time in Suhl? There was already a link established between the gunmaking centres of Suhl & Tula.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

The purported French boxlock looks to be a Kerner-Anson variant but I don't know. It has had a rough life even after the head of the stock was pinned. I'd say it was a price-point weapon out of St. Etienne. Images of the marks on the flats will point to the gunmaking centre.

I'm not much of a trombone fella, but the Winchester Modell 1897(John Browning design) looks to be one that was produced during demand in WWII and then filtered/pressed into military or police service elsewhere. Then serial number on the underside at the frame/tube juncture will date it.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Here's an Otto Reif thread and the engraving/inlay/tube & wood adornment look something similar. I'll try to bring some images over & compare:

http://www.doublegunshop.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=300178&page=all

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Beijing Police Museum example


Otto Reif example from 1947 - 12, 16 & 20 bore and I think one of the 20 bore tubes is rifled. Holland-Holland on locks.


Holland-Holland(H&H) must have been an advertising ploy. I'd really like to know the text on the top rib of the Beijing Police Museum example . Pin configuration looks to be very similar?? Without a doubt, the same talent performed the tap, tap, tap on the metal adornment. Note the same ivory/mother of pearl inlay behind the locks.

Kind Regards,

Raimey
rse

Dear Raimey,

I paid another visit to the Polic Museum and saw my lucky star there. They put in another shotgun in the glass case there the Otto Reif Strempel is exhibited. In the new arrangement they put the Strempel right side down, exposing the left side for the first time. Here are three more photos of the engraving, monogram and stock with cheekpiece.

http://blog.sina.com.cn/s/blog_3ec4d3090101fnmo.html

With best wishes,

Haibin

Dear Raimey,

It is interesting to find out today that on the said French sporting piece, I have seen "Fabrique Nationale d'Armes de Guerre" on the right barrel, there are two words on the left barrel, which I cannot decipher. In this case, is it a Belgian or French shotgun?

Best wishes,

Haibin

I also wonder if you like a direct means of communication, such as e-mail.

Haibin