doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com We'll be in for it now

King,

I find the use of the word vigilante to be extremely offensive. A vigilante is one who, after the fact, takes the execution of the law into their own hands. The word fails miserably to express the responsibility of citizens to take their own defense seriously. People will always die in this type of situation while waiting for police protection. The police cannot be outside of every door, nor do we want them to be. However, our society has trained those who are about to come unhinged that they will be unopposed in whatever they chose to do. I used to produce training materials for a large, national fast food chain. The store employees were taught to cooperate with an armed intruder. One store crew was herded into the walk-in cooler and all shot. No one resisted. They waited for their turn for the single bullet to the head. In Kansas, several years ago two guys who were accidently released from prison early, terrorized a group of twenty something friends for several hours before taking them to a soccor field and shooting each one execution style. No one resisted. They waited on their knees, naked in the snow for the single bullet to the head. One woman survived.

In my college dormitory more than half of the students were armed to the teeth with rifles, shotguns and handguns. There were no restrictions on posession of guns or ammo, in fack the schools had fields where we could hunt. One of the reasons we have crazy people wanting to shoot others is that they sense the fear that society has for guns which makes guns and their use powerful. Often the mental defective is a person who feels powerless. What better way to get power than have and use a gun?
Our problem is that we have created a fearfull society which is afraid to let its children play out-of-doors, touch anything dangerous,or even to be free to roam its neighborhoods. It is a bad situation and I don't know what to do about it except vote for the people who are not spreading fear, Turn off the stupid TV and read sensible newspapers. David

David Hamilton - Did you go to Hampden-Sydney?

David, because the word is extremely offensive to you does not make my use of it offensive. A self-organized group for maintenance of order in an imperfectly organized community could be comprised of vigilantes, according to OED. Other societies may not "take their own self defense seriously" in the way you do and choose differently. I disagree with you on what makes a more civil society, as many Americans do, but I do not find your opinion offensive. We've shared this board for five years. I do not contribute anything to be offensive. It's not the Canadian way. We're dull and polite.

King:
Perhaps it due to your location and the laws there but people with concealed carry permits here are certainly not viewed as vigilantes either by the public in general or the legal system in particular. One of the fundamental differences between us,law abiding citizens who choose to be armed and those who don't is the preception as to whether you have a basic right to defend yourself and members of your family. The right has been abbrogated apparentely in Countries such as great Britian where I'm told that personal assault cases have been skyrocketing.
A vigilante is someone who takes the law into their own hands in this Country. The law here to varying degrees depending on where you live affirms your right to defend yourself which hardly makes you a vigilante.
Jim

David, where do you find a sensible newspaper?

I'm going to "dump" mine with the exception of Polizei-Selbstlade-Pistole. I can afford to take 98% loss on value of that one. There is little future for handgun ownership in USA.
I like you folks, so part of the proceeds will go toward life membership in the NRA.
PS. Thornmaster, I would not worry about: SxS, O/U, bolt guns they're here to stay.

Jim, your words are as close to a consensus as we're likely to get on this issue on an international board. It's as hard for Americans and Canadians to understand each other on gun control as Canadians understanding what happened to our tough and individualistic colonial brothers in the wide expanses of Australia. We're different people and widely different throughout our own countries. As in all human affairs, one size doesn't fit all.

King,

You do not offend me and I am happy to share this board and to express differing opinions with you. However, you used the word vigilante in an offensive manner and then did not address any of the meat of my post regarding what precipitates acts of violence such as this one. While I respect your right to disagree with me, not all of your countrymen would defend your position. I know fine, law-abiding Canadians who still believe that gun rights and self-defence are important foundations of a polite society.

Best regards,
David

Gentlemen,

While I am certain the gun control issue will come up, the real issue lying underneath is MENTAL HEALTH. America (and pretty much everyone else in an open society) doesn't really have a pro-active approach to treating (i.e. jailing or pre-emptive confining/treating)people showing signs of violent behavior. Yes, people can ask for treatment, but even on Sunday there was a TV program about a guy that either went off his meds or his meds became ineffective, and whacked 5 people in New Mexico.

Guns are merely the scapegoat once again, but I think the issue of a pro-active mental health solution is needed in our time. I feel we must advocate some sort of solution before someone solves the problem for us by taking our guns away.

This is way off topic, I realize, but if someone "goes off the deep end" again, I'm sure they'll try to get a gun to do it.

Mike Doerner