doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com We'll be in for it now

The problem is the people writing the laws are neither law-abiding, fit or proper. They are intolerant of anyone who does not agree with them and refuse to obey any law or constitution which might stop them from destroying the freedoms of others.

They are the people pushed through the Virginia Legislature the law banning legal licensed carriage of guns on college campuses and wrote the school regulations taking away the God-given right of self defence. This insures that the only opposition to criminals are the pitiful "campus cops".

If you define insanity as continuing to do something, time and again, after it's been proven not to work they are as crazy as that VA tech shooter.

This is so sad that when something like this takes place some groups want to go after the tool that was used. But when planes are hijacked(9/11), trucks are rented(OK.City)or mail is used (Unibomber) to use as tools of distruction, no one says a word about taking planes, trucks away or stopping the mail. Everyone rightfully wants to go after the criminal.

Brent's response is compassionate. However, each one of us is a participant the instant we are aware of a situation, private or public. We are not observers. Citizenship, commonsense and responsibilities require a response according to our abilities. As a fraternity under siege, with widely varying opinions, we know the tragedy will precipitate calls for stronger legislation and, more immediately, better emergency response than the feeble and craven action by university and police. Discussion of pro-con challenges here to the Second Amendment is entirely appropriate under the circumstances. Not to thrash and trash, of course, but as something more positive than hand-wringing i.e. salopian and Lowell.

salopian,

I have a passion for target shooting and plinking with pistols and semi automatic rifles. Could you arrange something like that for me the next time I visit your area?

It is illegal in the U.S.A. for someone with mental problems to purchase a gun. The problems arise from sharing that information (medical privacy laws) and for people that are undiagnosed. I do no want government bureaucrat making those kind of 'diagnosis'.

Here is what the Austrailian PM or whatever he is called has to say: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18149774/

I think it is terrible that at this time of mourning an ass wipe like this guy can blame our "gun culture" on this senseless act. I am sure his subjects are real happy their government took their guns and made them "safer" but much less free.

What really chills me is that a whole lot of people were forced to crouch under a desk and just wait to be shot. Did I hear that some lined up to be shot? Unbelievable.

Why are schools a great target for mad man like this chinese guy (what about the chinese "gun culture")? Maybe it is because they are "gun Free" zones.

I cant say for sure what I would have done in this situation. But one resolute man (or woman) with a gun may have been able to stop this killer at some point.

"Gun Culture": Who came up with that stupid term? I'm sorry for the rant but there are a lot of things that could be at fault for this act but our "gun culture" is not ome of them.

Mike, one size does not fit all when it comes to shooting or anything else for that matter. What our fraternity does in one part of the world may not be what society as a whole has chosen in another country i.e. United Kingdom and Canada. With acceptance by the shooting fraternity as reasonable. It should not have escaped notice that the heavy lifting in Afghanistan is borne by the Anglo-Saxons. We're brothers under the skin. Regards, King

My correspondent, Steve F., wrote regarding the mass school killing in Virginia: " I still have to wonder if the moron would even have considered taking his chosen course of action, if he realized the strong possibility that he would be facing return fire"
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I replied:
~~~~~~~~~~~~~
~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Indeed. The more "shoot me freely" zones that are legislated by well meaning busybodies, the more our burgeoning mass-culture sociopaths will gravitate to them. We haven't even seen the surface but scratched, so far as mass "hands on" killing.

Whether it's "Instant Jihadi" as in the Mall shootings, or a crazed significant other who decides that killing everyone in sight is a feel-good operation, or the intentional and well planned massacre of an entire social unit of citizens -- the lowest common denominator will be that the intended victims are helpless and unarmed.

Otherwise, the ginks wouldn't even bother. Why chance getting killed before one can get all the thrills of the kill properly rolling? Instead of screaming and running and twitching bodies as a rewarding environment, the mass killer's last view would be the floor rushing up to meet him, beyond which is the black tunnel to oblivion or hell. Hell, preferably.

The way I see it, we have passed the tipping point of the cultural restraints with which us graybeard Boomers were raised. Ironically, we had a significant role of destruction and demise of such restraints. All for a good cause, yes? No? Instant gratification, pop culture music, violent video games, and indeed, the whole entertainment industry that developed to serve our spending power, have run us all right on into a living "Clockwork Orange". Good ol' 'ultra-violence' is the word, now.

In fact, in poor ol' England, while they are currently more disarmed than Soviet citizens in the latter days of the Evil Empire, the violence is at an all time high -- from youthful and remorseless young thugs. For fun and profit, nothing beats a good group mugging of victims unable to fight back. Besides, fighting back is illegal in Britain. However, even the pacifist Brit newspapers are complaining about the police inability to control the fun. Such enforcement of behavior by uniforms is far too little and too late, when the matrix itself has been run asunder.

T. S. Elliot's beast, slouching into our new century, has found that the center indeed, will not hold. As well, that morally collapsed rubble is a now a darkness, in which it can nest and spawn. In our search for personal freedom, we have abdicated the very responsibilities that enable a civil society to continue. Included in that abdication is a rejection of personal physical courage, of placing oneself in the front line of active defense against the terrorists: criminal or political.

Listen to the huge media outcry that this savage butchery will produce. Will ONE of the talking heads question why not ONE civilian adult on that campus was properly armed as the laws of Virginia allow? Nor will they ask why not ONE person was willing to "go to the sound of the guns" and stop the shooting. Ask yourself why that is? Because answering the call to arms, is what being a citizen in a community has always meant. YOU go to where the trouble is happening, and with your fellow citizens, YOU help make it stop -- even if some of you die in the effort to remove that threat.

That philosophy, that we as citizens are responsible for each other "in extremis" and under mortal danger, has been destroyed by the university intellectuals, the artistic media class, the entertainers, the talking head dispensers of wisdom, the religious civil pacifists, and politicians afraid of their own people. Therefore the scumbags, crazoids, jihadis, the bloodthirsty, the mass murderers, and other life-taking thrill seekers of the world understand perfectly well where to operate, and against whom to operate.

I have little faith that any politician or television blabbermouth will stand up and say, "It is your obligation under the historical meaning and covenant of the Second amendment, to have in your possession the means of personal and community defense, and to step forward so armed and so ready to lay down your life should that be needful, in the defense of said community."

One well placed shot from a simple .22 rifle, or a .22 target pistol, or even a flint-tipped arrow from a plain stick bow would have settled that killer's hash. All those things were commonly found in the possession of a student of the 1950s or early 60's at a college. Heck, they are still found in rural America's educational institutions, tho Federally not legal. Those kids go hunting after school, y'know? And, BTW, school shootings not only weren't done, I doubt that the idea ever entered anyone's mind.

Well, the heck with the whole mess. Whatever my support of the right and means to morally justified self-defense, there is every good chance that the 'Aunties' will eventually have us in all in 'jamies with feet, in a cute little yellow duck print. The public lies and deceptions and blames and evasions of responsibility will continue, until we live in some horrid sci-fi future where, as predicted long ago, the Morlocks will at last feast upon our enlightened descendants.

Yeah, like the Morlocks aren't here already, hunh?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

For a better understanding of what has taken place, why, and why the guns will be blamed, everyone should read "The Seven Myths of Gun Control" by Richard Poe.

King,

I understand your point. My reply was a tongue in cheek attempt to show what legislation can get you when it comes to gun control.

Respectfully,

John, you make your point. It's the balance that disturbs me. Watching PBS last night of the split-second decision-making of an American soldier in Baghdad describing his responsibility to protect and kill while being fired upon was hair-raising. He was ready to blast one group and held his fire realizing it may be gawkers (it was) and then nearly held off too long when a RPG poked into view.

I agree entirely with your view of civic responsibility but that's not the world we live in. Thirty-odd people in a tenement watched and heard Kitty Genovese being murdered and said nothing. An university administration and faculty had a killer on campus and did the wrong thing. The police society delegated to keep civil order to replace vigilantes appeared timid of return fire.

This is not to denigrate police officers as much as to question their professionalism, their training for these circumstances. Nor do I express an opinion here on what another society, state or neighbourhood chooses concerning gun laws. I do have reservations about the killer acting differently if he thought he would face return fire or that vigilantes are the answer.

I think of that decent responsible American soldier in Iraq, consummately trained to protect and kill, who lived but could have as easily died doing the right thing, as it so fortuituosly turned out. A very brave man. They are in short supply. Canada does not approve of vigilante action or armed citizenry because on balance it's better to delegate killing to professionals trained to accept the responsibility.

Warm regards, King