doublegunshop.com - home Forums General Discussion DoubleGun BBS @ doublegunshop.com Parker French Polish question.

Hi JDW

I have come up with some photographs of the traditional oil and wax stock finish that I have used on a vintage London double which is now close to one hundred and fifty years old so a high gloss finish I feel would be well out of place on such an old gun. On the first photograph I removed the wax and in doing so removed the shine but it allows you to see the grain of the timber, in the other photographs I re waxed the finish again to give the stock some lustre.








You did mention using �Spar Varnish� and at the time Victorian/Edwardian gun makers where experimenting different ways of finishing gun stocks a Mixture of Spar Varnish and Turpentine was a popular finish of the day, the reason being that the original ships spar varnish formula consisted of Copal dissolved in Tung nut oil and a fine finish it made.

Ken61 I have only used the �Venice Turpentine� that is intended for the treatment of horses hoofs well I am sure if you used the artists variety you would have to arrange a mortgage to purchase an ounce or two I find the horsy stuff works fine.
And as it is your original post I will not feel that I am hijacking it to change it to barrel finishing. I do not use Copper Sulphate bath at all because of the risk of copper plating, but I do like to start the browning process with a Ferric Chloride bath which I feel keeps the action of the rusting solution in the early stages constant and making the rust deposit less patchy.

There are a number of �Slakum Formulas� but the most common one is :-

� Pint Boiled Linseed Oil
2 Ounces Plaster Of Paris
� Ounce Antimony Chloride (If you want to darken the wood)
� Gill Alcohol
2 Teaspoons Venice Turpentine
Rather a lot for single person use but it can be adjusted down in quantity.

I do feel that I should say here it is not a magic substance that will work perfectly with no effort or practice because it wont!!!!!!!!!!!!

damascus,

Turpentine for horse's hoofs? Ah yes, I recall reading about this about forty years ago in James Herriot's "All Creatures Great and Small". I'm not sure if this is currently used like that over here. Kind of like Terebene, which appears to be unavailable. Since I live out here in the sticks (Eastern Iowa) and horses are much more numerous than artists, next time I trot over to my local farm supply store I'll see if they have some.

Thanks for the etchant info, I'm still deciding which may to go, the copper sulphate method I'm considering is the one described by Tony Treadwell.

Thanks
Ken

Thanks Damascus for your photos. I agree, a high shine on a old gun does not look right. On some of these guns that are done to a high finish, a little pumice and oil with take care of that. I have even used polishing compound that is used on cars.

Ken is Japan Dryer or Dryers available on your side of the pond in all but name it is the same as Terebene. I am sure that any oil paint drying accelerator will work and the only reason I mentioned it is I prefer to use art quality Linseed oil rather than the oil found in paint stores. The Linseed Oil be it boiled or raw sold in paint suppliers is rather impure and seems to deaden the grain somewhat and darken quickly over a short time. The art grade is far cleaner and does not seem to darken with age but it is far slower to dry and that is the reason for adding the dryers.

Yes, it's available over here. As well as the artist grade linseed oil. I'm going to mix up some slakum and test it out..

Thanks

The Bullseye people have responded. According to them, their current amber product is essentially the same thing as their orange product circa 1900. It is a natural, uncolored product with minor coloring variations from batch to batch.

Damascus, here's two more questions. Would Slacum be a more appropriate finish for a lower grade Birmingham gun from the mid-late 1800's? Over here I often run into these older hammerguns with Birmingham proofs. The second one is about your "Andy's Formula" for alkanet oil, in two parts. First, would there be any detriments or benefits of reducing the amount of linseed oil, even to the point of using straight walnut oil? I'm wondering if linseed was used because it may have been considerably cheaper. Secondly, Would an initial alkanet spirit stain (alkanet steeped in grain alc.) be beneficial to start the coloring process, followed by application of the oil?

How is your percussion restoration project coming?

Ken

Hi ken

Slakum was reputed to be used by a number of Victorian/Edwardian London gun makers but there has never been an official pen to paper it is only rumour. A lot of the so called secret trade finishes where passed about verbally and some where written down by some ones grandfather. The thing about all the finishing formulas you can never really be sure if there is something added to the formula just for the hell of it or to hide the correct constituents of the formula. Now the problem with Birmingham guns is that in the hay day of Birmingham gun making the trades men could make any quality of gun you requested from the absolute pinnacle of the art to rather poor trade quality. So because a gun has Birmingham proof marks will not always be a clue to its quality for example my Purdey has a full set of London and Birmingham proof marks and I have seen a number of Birmingham produced guns of superb quality having no name.
Now as for Andy the wood�s red oil formula he reckoned that by using a 50/50 cut of Walnut and linseed oils the colour of the oil was more stable and would keep in the bottle much better and not tend darken as linseed oil usually does, I do not think increasing the more expensive Walnut oil would make any difference to the end result only the price. Using alcohol rather than oil is another way of extracting the colour from Alkanet and some finishers prefer to use this method, because it speeds up the whole process though the final colour of the stain is far richer if the Alkanet is steeped in oil. In a nut shell the cheaper the gun the less will be spent in its entire production and that would include its finishing so more than likely it would just be the cheapest of timber and stain to darken it the cheapest stain at the time to use was asphalt and finishing with a couple of coats of linseed oil and a little wax polish to improve the look. Now on let�s say one of the top makers of Birmingham or London the stock was an all important eye catching part of the gun so more time effort money and finer timber was sure to be invested in its final finish, hence the use of resins to produce a lasting more pleasing finish to the wood of the stock.
As to my percussion project it is as we say over here �on the back burner� because just before Christmas I purchased a black vintage �Oak and Leather case for my Purdey� in extremely poor condition, I did post how I restored the leather and now I have just finished all the internal case repairs plus re-styling the partitions. So I am on the final part of the restoration re-lining with baize, I have taken some photographs of the process and I will post it when the case is finished in the near future.

Damascus,

I note that Antimony Chloride is listed as an optional component of your "Slakum Formula" to darken wood & if I remember correctly I have seen this in other "Slakum" Formulas in the form of "butter of antimony".

Can you elaborate on the impact Antimony has on darkening light wood. How much does it darken it & what is the color imparted?

The reason I ask is that I've found some of the lighter colored wood difficult to stain dark enough & get the "correct" color & especially when viewing the finished wood at different angles & in strong light.

Just wondering what the possibilities are & I'm assuming that Antimony had a definite purpose or it wouldn't have been used.

Hi Brittany Man.
Unfortunately I can not give you any information regarding the effects of Butter of Antimony (Antimony Chloride) because I have never added it to a finishing oil, my preferred method of finishing a stock is to apply the colour directly the wood be it either Alkanet Vandyke Brown artists colour, or sometimes Potassium Permanganate. Then fill the grain and finally apply the finish because I have found that if I apply a coloured or a finish that will colour the wood in some way it always well in my case it does, turn the stock colour patchy in the extreme.
I can only suggest that a little experiment is needed using Antimony but as I have said if you obtain the correct stock colour before you apply the finish there is really no need to apply a finish that will darken it further.

damascus,
A few more questions. Do you have any idea what the amounts of copal and turpentine were used in the early spar varnish mixtures? I suspect that this may be a more period correct mix for older lower grade Birmingham guns. In "Andy's" recipe, was it boiled or unboiled linseed oil? Could you add Vandyke Brown to this recipe as part of the staining process?
Thanks
Ken