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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
I agree with all 5 points, except the part about brittle.
The metal shows ample evidence of elasticity in the bulged part.
I eagerly await more information Drew. I'm not a metalurgist I'm a drunkard, which at least according to Captain Renault makes me a citizen of the world. So now we can "round up the usual suspects?"" and it is metallurgist, always has been, even since time first started to go by!!
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,035 Likes: 47
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 4,035 Likes: 47 |
So you picked up on the 'Casablanca' reference, but I bet you had to look up metal-lurgist.
"The price of good shotgunnery is constant practice" - Fred Kimble
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Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,463 Likes: 212
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2009
Posts: 7,463 Likes: 212 |
Craig, in your last paragraph about the depth of the crimp or possible primer substitution, Joe Wood loaded that exact recipe but doubled the powder and if you look at his post with the picture you will see it did not or could not crimp. Also unless it was a magnum primer such as a Federal 209M or CCI 209M the increase would not be substantial.... There a Tom Armbrust article I believe on his website floating around on the net that shows about 1500psi swings just on primer swap (different powder on that test). Also, he showed a target load using Clays powder that rose about 1800psi only on depth of crimp changes. There were some folks that thought the original load was on the warm side for the gun, and I was thinking small variances might have been feeding the gun higher pressures than it seemed.
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Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,728 Likes: 50
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,728 Likes: 50 |
Craig, yes I have also read Tom's reviews and I will agree there is much to know in reloading. I have also seen a powder that just substituting a primer only changed it a few hundred psi.
There is a lot of information on reloading on Shotgunworld in the Reloading section, many have had loads tested and have shared their results. Most all will agree that shooting in the 8,000 psi range, a primer substitution will not bring you close to SAMMI's pressure for 12 gauge which I believe is 11,500 psi.
I do have to agree, that his load was high for a vintage gun no matter if a Damascus or fluid steel barrel.
David
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Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,486 Likes: 393
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Oct 2009
Posts: 6,486 Likes: 393 |
So you picked up on the 'Casablanca' reference, but I bet you had to look up metal-lurgist. Damn I missed that. Love that sort of thing.
The world cries out for such: he is needed & needed badly- the man who can carry a message to Garcia
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15 |
I don't know what may have caused it, but it looks like a severe over stress of one or few cycles.
The large crystal structure is what I'd expect for Damascus given how its made. I would think a low cycle fatigue failure would show striations.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15 |
If you can perform some hoop tensile tests of samples from the barrel just ahead of the failed section, I think it would be very telling. My wild guess is that there was no metal deficiency that caused or significantly contributed to this.
I made a fixture to do this testing a number of years ago and sent it to a member in Oregon.
Last edited by Chuck H; 02/11/14 11:15 PM.
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Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 13,879 Likes: 15 |
Who would venture a guess on the pressure this failed at?
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Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,199 Likes: 7
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2011
Posts: 1,199 Likes: 7 |
Been following these threads with some interest and have to say this is some of the best forensic detective work I've seen in a long, long time. Y'all are to be congratulated and encouraged for it.
Now for my $0.02. I believe the consensus has coalesced around there having been an obstruction in the barrel. I recall part of the early discussion being that there was snow in the area when the gun was dropped after the blowout. Could the obstruction, which seems to have been the cause, have been snow itself?
Getting a clot of snow in the barrels is something I'm always watching out for while hunting in winter conditions. It has happened to me - thankfully I caught it before firing - and I can say it does happen without even noticing it.
fiery, dependable, occasionally transcendent
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Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114
Sidelock
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Sidelock
Joined: May 2008
Posts: 8,158 Likes: 114 |
So you picked up on the 'Casablanca' reference, but I bet you had to look up metal-lurgist. Not really- I may not be one, but I know how to spell that word- the AWS Welding Journal and also the Lincoln Electric Co. "Stabilizer" use that word in reference to a welder's need to know the basics of both ferrous and non-ferrous metals identification- ie: spark testing on ferrous metals, etc. There is an old but true saying that a good quality weld depends on 90% proper preparation, and basic knowledge of metallurgy is part and parcel of that. And with that, you can "Knock on wood"- with or without Mr. Dooley Wilson on the "shortened Steinway"!!
Last edited by Run With The Fox; 02/11/14 11:24 PM.
"The field is the touchstone of the man"..
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